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Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

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Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#21

Post by xjwm »

sharkweek wrote: post #3

I have a confession to make - I'm not a particularly good leader. I don't like managing people, and I'm not terribly interested in learning how to do this. I have seen good managers in action, and have been under a few on occasion; I am not one of these people. I do, however, have some very solid skills and have deployed them repeatedly at the handful of companies I have worked at in the past. My main concern is know…

I feel like the terms leadership and management are often used interchangeability in business, but they aren't the same thing.

You can provide leadership without being a manager. In your case, it sounds like a team could benefit from your past experiences. You could easily mentor and teach others, and provide guidance for projects. That doesn't necessarily require performing traditional "management" functions.

It would all hinge on what your corporate culture supports and expects from people in charge.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#22

Post by trhway »

trustfundbaby wrote: post #18
pfarnsworth wrote: post #8

Because talking with confidence will go 90% of the way to convincing people that you know what you're talking about. So often I've worked with assholes who talk with such confidence that most people won't bother filtering the garbage coming from their mouths. They just believe it. It's almost eerie how effectively talking with confidence works. It's so effective that when you complain about these charlatans, YOU look…

At the risk of being divisive, this will generally only work if you're white, if you're a minority or a woman, there's way more pushback on all those things, even when you're right. Seen it many times.

>if you're a minority or a woman

for hundreds of thousands of years having your tribe represented by a confident male (selected from the majority of the tribe) was beneficial (at least we can conclude that now based on the survivor bias principle) We still have those cave man instincts with us to a high degree. The point of civilization development is to reign in cave man instincts inside and among us. Seems that it takes time.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#23

Post by Kluny »

trentnix wrote: post #9

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle From the link: The Peter principle is a concept in management theory formulated by Laurence J. Peter and published in 1969. It states that the selection of a candidate for a position is based on the candidate's performance in their current role, rather than on abilities relevant to the intended role. Thus, employees only stop being promoted once they can no longer perform…

I don't think you read the article.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#24

Post by LeanderK »

vinceguidry wrote: post #7
sharkweek wrote: post #3

I have a confession to make - I'm not a particularly good leader. I don't like managing people, and I'm not terribly interested in learning how to do this. I have seen good managers in action, and have been under a few on occasion; I am not one of these people. I do, however, have some very solid skills and have deployed them repeatedly at the handful of companies I have worked at in the past. My main concern is know…

I'm fairly sure the idea of a natural leader is a myth. Just about everybody has to learn how to do it. Everyone starts out bad at it and they work and work and work until they're better, then everybody starts crowing about how natural they made it look. It has to look natural for it to be effective. This requires a lot of art.

but i think this is not the relevant observation. The question is whether one enjoys leading and is willing and motivated to learn. The question is not whether one can learn how to do it, but instead who wants to learn how to do it. And high-performers (in my experience) have a higher motivation to learn (they don't have magic superpowers, at least most ;) ), so i would guess they are better at leading because they care more about learning to lead. I think "natural leaders" just enjoy leading and have been practicing it since kindergarten.

Disclaimer: pure speculation ;)

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#25

Post by Kluny »

sparrish wrote: post #16

It's because of the "Peter principle" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle "employees only stop being promoted once they can no longer perform effectively"... that's at the "Leader" level for so many.

I don't think you read the article.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#26

Post by battlebot »

Another backhanded dig at Trump, perhaps? Listen, Trump may be a lot of things, but he's not incompetent. And here's the most important thing that he is not: A drinker. He doesn't drink. That makes him different than pretty much every other politician in DC. The are all drunks and worse. And if you've ever dealt with a drunk, you know something very important: Alcoholics are all liars. That, above all, is the problem with our political leadership. Simply having strict drug and alcohol screenings in order to be elected would go a long ways towards cleaning up government and politics.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#27

Post by DonaldFisk »

amjaeger wrote: post #14

Article does not present and solutions to picking a good leader and avoiding the issues mentioned in the article. Unless the advice is "only elect female leaders" - which also seems broken.

How about avoiding those with personality traits which the article says make incompetent people look competent: psychopaths, narcissists, risk seekers,the over-confident, the arrogant, the manipulative, etc.?

Some women have these traits too, so discriminating by sex isn't the answer.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#29

Post by Ixiaus »

trustfundbaby wrote: post #18
pfarnsworth wrote: post #8

Because talking with confidence will go 90% of the way to convincing people that you know what you're talking about. So often I've worked with assholes who talk with such confidence that most people won't bother filtering the garbage coming from their mouths. They just believe it. It's almost eerie how effectively talking with confidence works. It's so effective that when you complain about these charlatans, YOU look…

At the risk of being divisive, this will generally only work if you're white, if you're a minority or a woman, there's way more pushback on all those things, even when you're right. Seen it many times.

Perhaps a more accurate characterization instead of specifically being white, having an of the dominant category of people in a culture (I'm using the word culture broadly, there are cases in which I do not think white males are the dominant nor revered category).

When you have a dominant group of people that share an attribute, I think anchoring and other cognitive biases will always play an influential role.

> Seen it many times.

Not sure if being intentionally humorous here, but I think it's funny regardless!

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#30

Post by refurb »

trustfundbaby wrote: post #18
pfarnsworth wrote: post #8

Because talking with confidence will go 90% of the way to convincing people that you know what you're talking about. So often I've worked with assholes who talk with such confidence that most people won't bother filtering the garbage coming from their mouths. They just believe it. It's almost eerie how effectively talking with confidence works. It's so effective that when you complain about these charlatans, YOU look…

At the risk of being divisive, this will generally only work if you're white, if you're a minority or a woman, there's way more pushback on all those things, even when you're right. Seen it many times.

if you're a minority or a woman, there's way more pushback on all those things

My counter to that is Theranos.

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