Earlier quoted context omitted.
Were you there when the alleged facts happened? If not, it is definitely he-said-she-said. It is probable that things happened as Fowler claims, but we have no way of knowing without evidence. The article mentions the facts, which are basically who said what, since neither side has shared any evidence. Personally I'm not going to pass judgment either way without knowing more, but this is definitely going into my some…
http://bit.ly/2kCE416 She claims to have a record of all of the events, although she (rightly) didn't post them.
Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee
391–400 of 534 posts
Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee
#392As I commented last night[1], the New York Times has cast Fowler's experience as a he-said-she-said story. Unfortunately I was not pessimistic enough: 1. The New York Times spiked the most damning part of Fowler's story: that HR was actively involved in supporting the behavior. 2. It down plays Fowler's specific experience as typical for the industry and marginalizes it by bringing Pao's story into Fowler's narrative…
Neither the NYT nor Reuters articles mention the other 90% of the alleged activities: http://bit.ly/2kCE416
https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-on...
Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee
#393As I commented last night[1], the New York Times has cast Fowler's experience as a he-said-she-said story. Unfortunately I was not pessimistic enough: 1. The New York Times spiked the most damning part of Fowler's story: that HR was actively involved in supporting the behavior. 2. It down plays Fowler's specific experience as typical for the industry and marginalizes it by bringing Pao's story into Fowler's narrative…
Were you there when the alleged facts happened? If not, it is definitely he-said-she-said. It is probable that things happened as Fowler claims, but we have no way of knowing without evidence. The article mentions the facts, which are basically who said what, since neither side has shared any evidence. Personally I'm not going to pass judgment either way without knowing more, but this is definitely going into my some…
There is no plausibility analysis of the CEO's claim of unawareness given the recent replacement of the head of HR and its upgrade to a C-level position. Instead the New York Times analysis consists of drawing false parallels to the ambiguities of Pao's unrelated experiences.
Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee
#394Is there any physical/electronic evidence?
As a community of above-average intelligence and reason, I am disappointed to see hacker news commenters abuse their power to silence requests for evidence. If you approach things objectively you must always seek evidence. Given the libel risks, there must be some evidence. Perhaps it's not getting released at this stage to strengthen her legal position. In this case the evidence shared thus far is character-based. That doesn't obviate the need or prevent the ability to have a rational, logical discussion about evidence.
Please, go ahead and silence this post as well. Show me how badly you deserve your current political situation and fractured nation. If this community behaves this way, I don't have much hope for the world.
Our democracy and the world needs people committed to reason, evidence, and open dialogue. The choice is yours.
Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee
#395Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is a very unwise way to look at evidence. You can't apply the legal standard of evidence to the rest of the world, because courtrooms have facilities that make evidence highly available. You have discovery, expert analysis, compelled testimony, and the possibility of sealing records to protect the parties involved. When evidence should be available, absence of evidence is strong evidence of absence. Outside of c…
> If she turns out to be lying, things will go very badly for her. Not only will it be difficult for her to find a company willing to hire her, but Uber could sue her for defamation. Exactly. Given the risks, there should be some evidence. Perhaps it's not getting released at this stage to strengthen her legal position. It is popular in the USA right now to silence rational, evidence based discussions. Now more than…
Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee
#396I have a hard time believing HR really behaved the way they are portrayed in that article. They really claimed that if she elected to stay in her current department she should expect to receive a negative review from the boss she rejected for a sexual relationship? This is just too much. And for someone as savvy and with as large an internet presence as the author, I can't imagine she would accept this resolution. Th…
Why aren't you incredulous - isn't that far harder to believe? Oh, right, because she has those screenshots in black and white. So instead you have to be incredulous about what she doesn't.
This is like a black attorney receiving mail saying "You're not welcome in my classroom and if I could, I'd hang you from a noose. Because you're black." signed by a law professor. And the law professor then giving an F - no credit - on every assignment this person handed in. While, incidentally, the law student publishes a book on the area of law the professor teaches in.
So, we get this write-up. And at that point, here you come with your statement "I have a hard time believing that a law professor really gave zero credit for well-written papers that aren't plagiarized. I find it far more likely that either the papers really were unworthy of credit, or perhaps were plagiarized. It just doesn't make sense for a professor to assign no credit otherwise!"
I use this analogy because in this case you are not questioning the racist signed letter, what the author has in black and white. You're shifting and moving the conversation to whatever part has the least evidence, then adding that you find it hard to believe.
How can you honestly do that? Why don't you question the part that has screenshots? The new hire being directly propositioned - on their first day!!! - by their direct manager?
Come on. Withdraw your statement.
Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee
#397>Ms. Fowler’s account is another sign of Silicon Valley’s struggle with women’s issues and diversity in a male-dominated engineering environment. In 2015, the venture capital world was put under the microscope when Ellen Pao, a former partner at Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, claimed in a lawsuit that she was discriminated against at the blue-chip venture firm because of her gender — a case she lost. This paragrap…
Let me guess.... You're male, yeah? Sit down and be quiet please - you're not helping.
Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee
#398As I commented last night[1], the New York Times has cast Fowler's experience as a he-said-she-said story. Unfortunately I was not pessimistic enough: 1. The New York Times spiked the most damning part of Fowler's story: that HR was actively involved in supporting the behavior. 2. It down plays Fowler's specific experience as typical for the industry and marginalizes it by bringing Pao's story into Fowler's narrative…
So profoundly disappointed in not just the NY Times but all the media coverage. The story is not that Travis has ordered an investigation - it's that Uber is a cesspool. And for those who are saying "do you have evidence" - please... Like we ALL don't know what working at Uber is like. Cmon man.
That's circular reasoning. The reason that working at Uber is bad is because we all know that working at Uber is bad.
That's the sort of logic that starts witch trials and Communist hunting. "Well, she's a witch because we all know she's a witch."
How about "Well, she's a slut because we all know she's a slut?" That's about the same level of logic as your statement.
Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee
#399Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If she turns out to be lying, things will go very badly for her. Not only will it be difficult for her to find a company willing to hire her, but Uber could sue her for defamation. Exactly. Given the risks, there should be some evidence. Perhaps it's not getting released at this stage to strengthen her legal position. It is popular in the USA right now to silence rational, evidence based discussions. Now more than…
Given the risks, her lawyer would advise her to avoid making the details of the case public. You're not Sherlock Holmes. Unless you have years of experience in law, you have no business scrutinizing evidence.
>>It's not getting released at this stage to strengthen her legal position.
Did you miss this statement, or simply fail to comprehend it?
> Unless you have years of experience in law, you have no business scrutinizing evidence.
I'm glad to hear it. This is a valid option! We should rely on the experts and refrain from making any judgments based on this until those experts reach a determination.
Wait, no, you're just another person who shouts down any views that don't match your own, contributing to insular, prejudiced communities who never communicate or have compassion for each other. Enjoy the state of your country; people like you created it.
Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision" Seems pretty clear-cut to me?
"Frequent" and "severe" are definitely not legal terms. If you ask somebody out to dinner, and they say they're busy, is it ok to ask them out again in a week? Is that frequent? Everything is context driven, which makes things very difficult to write hard and fast rules about. For instance, it is usually sexual harassment if you link somebody to a page of with pictures of models in lingerie on it. If you work for an…
You keep coming up with all kinds of examples, but in real life most people know (or should know) what constitutes harassment and what doesn't.