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Starting an Internet Service Provider

chrishacken.com

21–30 of 248 posts

Re: Starting an Internet Service Provider

#21
post #10

This was a super interesting read. The one thing I never fail to get over though is how expensive internet is in the states. In the UK you can get 200/20 for about £58 p/m including TV & Phone. I couldn't imagine paying nearly $100 p/m for 100mbps.

That's thanks to the BT/OpenReach split in the 90s forcing small ISPs to compete on service & cost (because they all have the same guaranteed cost to access the infrastructure). Plus y'know you can blow fibre to 90% of the population in a reasonable amount of time.

Except it's not - for 200/20 at those prices the GP must be talking about a Virgin Media line, and they run their own cables. The increased competition between providers probably contributes to driving down prices to just above the point of profitability, but its not responsible for the infrastructure in this case.

Re: Starting an Internet Service Provider

#22
post #10

This was a super interesting read. The one thing I never fail to get over though is how expensive internet is in the states. In the UK you can get 200/20 for about £58 p/m including TV & Phone. I couldn't imagine paying nearly $100 p/m for 100mbps.

Same cost in the US but you get much less speed.

Re: Starting an Internet Service Provider

#23

Thanks for this article. I have been considering the feasibility of starting a WISP here in West Texas, so it's cool to see the beggining stages from the inside perspective. I whish I knew more about the laws on common access to equipment/lines. For example, the only cable provider locally is Suddenlink, AT&T Uverse is still on copper phone lines, and there is only one local ISP bringing fiber to residential customer…

I've been building WISPs in the US (including Texas) for about 14 years now. Happy to chat, email in my profile.

Re: Starting an Internet Service Provider

#24

I've seen a possibly related issue with static electricity in a large building in PA that had 3 power feeds, after lightning we would have ethernet port problems. I would suggest that you declare a 2am Thursday maintenance window and use a script to automatically reboot all the devices. This in combination with checking that you have a good separate ground wire connection at all antenna locations should pretty much f…

That sounds like a great idea. I've actually debated doing this before, but I wasn't sure if the service disruption was worth it considering it happens maybe once every other month and sporadically at that.

The last level3 contract I had had such a maintenance window declared in it. So I can't claim credit for it :)

Re: Starting an Internet Service Provider

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I subscribed to Chris' newsletter as I hope to hear more about the challenges involved in his endeavor. Starting a small ISP has been a vision of mine since my first after-school job at a ISP helpdesk 15 years ago. I'd really love to be involved in running a community ISP in an underserved area, so I'm interested in reading about the technical and regulatory challenges especially. @froztbyte I'd be doubly interested…

Nothing exciting published, no. Blogging wasn't particularly big around this part of the world/specific-weird-subset-of-the-market for most of that time. Should I consider writing up some of them? Past aside, there are many things already underway, in many areas, that you could be involved in if you wished. Do some research around areas that you find yourself interested in (both technologically, and geographically),…

I'm the type of person who can lose hours reading stories on sites like Jargon File, Folklore.org, Raymond Chen's blog about MS internals, and even more modern internet history stories. And as I wouldn't limit my search on areas to get involved in muni ISPs to my own country, a global perspective would be interesting to read.

Re: Starting an Internet Service Provider

#26
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I obviously completely agree; we tried relentlessly to contact our local utilities to gain access to their underground conduit and was never able to get someone on the phone or even much of a response. I eventually got to the point where I was like, "F k it, I'll do it on my own." Now we're looking at microtrenching, which is probably an even larger endeavor, but at least we'll own the conduit.

Perhaps try reaching out to the B4RN folks to learn some of their lessons. A lot won't apply because UK vs. US but I'm sure some of their experiences might help you avoid problems! https://b4rn.org.uk

Agreed 100% on the B4RN suggestion, they're doing some pretty amazing work on relatively tiny budgets.

Re: Starting an Internet Service Provider

#27

I think I asked you for the write-up before. Thanks for doing it. I'd like more details, though, on the costs of equipment, installation, and so on for wireless and fiber. I mean, outside of running fiber to houses or businesses, what's the cost of the switches, any boxes protecting them, and the bandwidth? And how much bandwidth can you get away with offering them or reserving for yourself?

The answer to some of those questions are complex. I was trying to keep the length of this post to a minimum, so I decided to keep that information out, but I'll try to provide some of the details you asked about.

The cost of equipment depends on the installation. If we use Ubiquiti sectors and CPE's, the sectors run about $500/each and each CPE is around $130. I don't think we have a sector with more than 6 clients on it and I don't think I'd be willing to put more than 10 on one, depending on the channel and signal, each antenna has around 250 Mbps of capacity. So if we have 6 clients on a sector, that's about $213/subscriber.

Most of our business customers are on PtP radios. I use Mimosa B5-lite's for those, which are $300/set.

Some of our customers are in properties in which we already have equipment, so the cost there depends on how many customers are in the same building. I'll typically run the CPE to a switch and then branch out to customers from there. Let's say that the property has 3 subscribers and I used a Mimosa B5-lite to the property. Add $300 for a switch and we're at around $200/subscriber.

I'd probably say that a client, on average, costs around $250 to get setup.

Every antenna and switch in our PoP is connected to a UPS system; I have one large 3U UPS and a few stand-alone desktop UPS's. They probably total around $2,500. We use a small fraction of our available bandwidth; that's not a concern. What is a concern is the spectrum available per antenna, which is why I said I would not put more than 10 clients on an antenna.

I'll write another post about the cost of fiber.

Re: Starting an Internet Service Provider

#29

While I don't wish you ill will, I do wish to remark that you have had it remarkably easy with this. Source: 7 ISPs. In Africa. On unreliable power, broken fibre, people stealing your spectrum, etc.

Do your customers tolerate all that? As in, can you ignore a good chunk of it because Internet issues are more acceptable in Africa? Or did you have to prevent, detect, and/or mitigate all of it because they expect nearly-perfect Internet in your area?

By way of answering, let me recount a short story for you.

It takes place during the very first time I visited Kampala (the capital of Uganda). It was about 3 years before I had started working in the ISP/telecom space in Africa. This particular trip was soccer-specific (I was working on the team that delivered one of the big trans-national African tournaments' games on television), thus the non-ISP nature of it.

We arrive at our hotel, having driven just under an hour from Entebbe to Kampala. It's fairly pleasant, albeit a tad humid (it's mid-day and near the equator after all; 36C and >=70% humidity - not the worst). There's a group of around 30 of us that now need to check in... this always takes a little while.

So, everything goes on. You loaf around the hotel reception until it's your point in the queue, grab some water now and then when you can. Finally, you're standing at the front desk, starting your process of checkin.

You read off your name... the person behind the counter finds you in the list (of fortunately mostly checked-off people - yay alphabet precedence!), and starts doing some stuff on the front desk computer. At which point you glance over to said desktop and notice the UPS jacked into the UPS jacked into the UPS (yes, three) jacked into the computer. You idly inquire about this. The response is "oh, yeah, the other ones died with all the power outages".

Not a joke, as it turns out. While you're doing your checking, the building experiences a brownout twice.

Years later, you get there for a totally different reason. Time (literal years) has passed. And during setup of some equipment (here, I'm skipping about two days' worth of time), you find that the reason your laptop screen kept dimming and your DC UPS' kept beeping.... is because you're getting such major voltage swings on the building feed that everything is going over-or-under-voltage.

This is daily life (in many parts of Africa). It isn't a thing to fight against. It just is. You take it, and try to do your utter best. You try to deliver your utter best.

And if you just push hard enough (and, imo, if you're really, really lucky) you maybe get somewhere with it!

Re: Starting an Internet Service Provider

#30

I've seen a possibly related issue with static electricity in a large building in PA that had 3 power feeds, after lightning we would have ethernet port problems. I would suggest that you declare a 2am Thursday maintenance window and use a script to automatically reboot all the devices. This in combination with checking that you have a good separate ground wire connection at all antenna locations should pretty much f…

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