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Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

nytimes.com

261–270 of 534 posts

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#261
post #187
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a sweeping statement that I utterly disagree with. We do HR software, I've interacted with many HR people at many companies and I've never even heard of anything as outrageous as the behavior described in this case. In no way is it the way"most HRs" behave.

My experience is different. Every HR person I have ever interacted with was either entirely clueless or immensely evil.

I've had some bad experiences, but I've never felt the need to describe them in those terms. And yes, even in the worse case

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they're not your friend, but Jesus Christ, the amount of legal trouble this particular HR establishment exposed themselves to through their actions is breathtaking. THAT'S their job: to prevent the company from getting sued!! In this case I'm completely bewildered as to why HR handled this particular situation so clumsily.

Agreed. The "HR is not your friend" trope gets thrown out a lot, but in cases where your goals align with the company's (i.e. you don't want to get harassed, and the company doesn't want to get sued), HR is the place you should be able to go.

Reading between the lines of Mrs. Fowler's account, the company's goal was being nice to a more important employee than her: a common situation in sexual harassment cases and other workplace conflicts.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#263
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say withholding judgement was crazy, see the first sentence in my comment. I just don't see your point - she wrote a blog post. On her own website. She didn't say she was writing about the moral philosophy of sexual harassment. She didn't set out to write a feminist manifesto. She just wrote down what happened to her. Issues about morality and stance conflation are being imposed by you, derived from your hyp…

>She just wrote down what happened to her What she _said_ happened to her. Nobody has corroborated and she has presented no evidence. It may well have happened, and would be rightfully a scandal about deplorable behavior if it did - but there is nothing so far besides just this one person's blog post which she herself says multiple others _can_ corroborate.

'If you are saying things like “We can’t really know what happened” and extra-specially pleading on behalf of the extra-special Woody Allen, then you are saying that his innocence is more presumptive than hers. You are saying that he is on trial, not her: he deserves judicial safeguards in the court of public opinion, but she does not.

The damnably difficult thing about all of this, of course, is that you can’t presume that both are innocent at the same time. One of them must be saying something that is not true. But “he said, she said” doesn’t resolve to “let’s start by assuming she’s lying,” except in a rape culture, and if you are presuming his innocence by presuming her mendacity, you are rape cultured.'

https://thenewinquiry.com/blogs/zunguzungu/woody-allens-good...

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#264

One thing that every employee needs to understand is that HR is not your friend. No matter how friendly or helpful they seem, their job is not to protect you. It's to protect the company.

I hear this truism a lot, along with "companies must put the profit obligation first." It's only true in a very limited technical sense. When someone is harassing you, "protecting the company" generally means making sure that person doesn't harass you or anyone else, often by firing them. Because if they don't, the company is at risk of massive liability. That doesn't mean they can't be terrible at their jobs, or fai…

...along with "companies must put the profit obligation first."

At risk of labouring your point; which also certainly isn't true in a legal (and thus actual) sense.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suing is a surefire pathway to being made a pariah, case in point Ellen Pao. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pao_v._Kleiner_Perkins

> ...pa ... I understand that English has absorbed that word and its meaning in the current sense. But please don't use that word. That is like the n-word in south india. It is specifically used to refer to people in a derogatory way.

"Pariah" might be "like the n-word in south India" because in India the relevant castes and ethnic groups are still there and applying the term to an Indian is an actual insult, but for everyone else it's a purely metaphorical reference to a specific and remote historical instance of people treating other people with extreme contempt or worse.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#266
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure..the thing I don't understand is why she didn't go to a lawyer? That would have been the next logical step for me. At least 1 person should get to prison if there is enough evidence collected by multiple women.

A friend of mine experienced a somewhat worse level of harassment at her job. She lawyered up and quickly received an offer for a non-trivial silver parachute, and a mutual non-disparagement agreement on her way out the door. Seemed like a fine solution, but it soon became evident that she had, in fact, been blacklisted: 18 months passed before anybody would even give her an interview, and that was only after decidin…

Blacklisting employees for reasons like this is unbelievably crazy illegal, just so everyone knows. I strongly encourage anyone with knowledge of or possessing any such blacklists to blow the whistle on this, hard.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#267
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (this behavior doesn't match the 6 companies I've worked at) Why do you think women would tell you about their experiences? I've read your comments on HN, and you'd be the last person I'd tell if it had happened to me.

> I've read your comments on HN, and you'd be the last person I'd tell if it had happened to me. So you prefer preaching to the choir to trying to change someone's mind?

Are you saying victims of harassment have some duty to seek out and tell people who are unlikely to believe them or care?

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#268
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine experienced a somewhat worse level of harassment at her job. She lawyered up and quickly received an offer for a non-trivial silver parachute, and a mutual non-disparagement agreement on her way out the door. Seemed like a fine solution, but it soon became evident that she had, in fact, been blacklisted: 18 months passed before anybody would even give her an interview, and that was only after decidin…

Blacklisting employees for reasons like this is unbelievably crazy illegal, just so everyone knows. I strongly encourage anyone with knowledge of or possessing any such blacklists to blow the whistle on this, hard.

It's not necessarily really a blacklist, but when the court case comes up when the employer googles your name... companies like to claim to be pro-equality since they get good press for it, but they're not actually going to put that to any sort of test. Much easier to hire somebody who's not proven themselves willing to stand up for their rights.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#269

These are allegations by one party against another with zero data either way, why is everyone on the anti-uber bandwagon.

Sooner or later, the truth is going to come out. Fowler knows this. There's no room for ambiguity here: either Uber has broken the law extravagantly , or she's lying. If the latter is true, she will be crucified for it. The defamation suit alone would be monumental. And again, there's no ambiguity. She says she has extensive records of this behavior. That's not something she can really walk back. In a situation where…

There's an obvious test of whether your claim that, if she's caught lying, she'll become a massive pariah: Ellen Pao, whose claims fell apart in a court of law thanks to evidence she was lying. Look at how the publications like the New York Times and people in this thread treated that case. Here's some quotes from the NYT article about her losing that is linked from this one:

"One of Silicon Valley’s most famous venture capital firms prevailed on Friday over a former partner in a closely watched suit claiming gender discrimination, but hardly got away unscathed."

'"This case sends a powerful signal to Silicon Valley in general and the venture capital industry in particular,” Ms. Rhode said. “Defendants who win in court sometimes lose in the world outside it."'

Neither the fact that her claims were found not to be true in a court of law nor the evidence contradicting them mattered as far as the press or public opinion were concerned. Just the fact that she made them in the first place was sufficient justification for condemning the company she accused and their entire industry.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#270

Let there be a lesson, always use a prostitute. If you want kids, rent a womb.

I hope you don't "use" one. Sex workers deserve better.

You're right, I don't "use" them. I fuck them. That's the service they offer. Sorry if I burst someone's bubble so they feel the need to flag my comment, but not everyone is a Victorian prude in denial of human nature.
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