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As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

nytimes.com

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Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#91

Post by metaphor »

finid wrote: post #49
richdougherty wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm asking because I genuinely don't know: did Samoa apply bans to unhealthy locally produced food too or just to unhealthy imported food?

did Samoa apply bans to unhealthy locally produced food too or just to unhealthy imported food? In general, countries like that don't have unhealthy, locally-produced food. And the article agrees with that assertion. We have a patent on junk food.

> In general, countries like that don't have unhealthy, locally-produced food. And the article agrees with that assertion.

Patently false assertion. I'm ethnically a pacific islander who grew up on a small island in Micronesia and I can assure you that local island dishes are quite unhealthy.

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#93

Post by gydfi »

realusername wrote: post #47
pjc50 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And people wonder why there's an anti-globalisation backlash.

Last time I've tried to argue for the French ban of unlimited soda refills, I was called a "Stalinist" so I probably won't say much on this one. I hope it will help to reduce their obesity rates.

The "Stalinism" isn't so much about the actual soda, but more about the attitude that the government should have the power to just step in and ban whatever the hell someone has decided is a bad idea this week. Once you move from the presumption of freedom to the presumption that anything that might have negative consequences should be banned, it's hard to get back.

Personally I believe that whatever consenting adults get up to is none of the government's business, whether it's weird butt stuff or selling each other unlimited quantities of sugary water. If you're going to ban one, why not ban the other? They're both enjoyable to certain people and both have negative public health consequences.

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#94

Post by nradov »

TuringNYC wrote: post #54
olalonde wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eliminate a policy designed for the betterment of the population! Depends who you ask. Some people understand the risks of junk food but still want it (same as with alcohol and tobacco). Junk food also tends to be cheaper per calorie.

Where does one draw the line? Hard drugs?

Junk food probably kills more people than hard drugs now.

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#95

Post by gydfi »

TuringNYC wrote: post #54
olalonde wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eliminate a policy designed for the betterment of the population! Depends who you ask. Some people understand the risks of junk food but still want it (same as with alcohol and tobacco). Junk food also tends to be cheaper per calorie.

Where does one draw the line? Hard drugs?

Yeah, sounds reasonable.

Why draw the line there? Because hard drugs so directly impair the mind.

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#96

Post by concinds »

lend000 wrote: post #88
concinds wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be fine with both. Where's the conflict?

Huge difference. One allows free association, whereas the other involves using government force to take away freedom.

Those are arbitrary "principles" that only make sense in the context of a given arbitrary political ideology.

I want to live in a country where it's easy to be lean, so that as many people as possible are lean, because there are no downsides to being lean, and infinite upsides.

Paying in relation to what you use seems fair. Sending small packages costs less than big heavy packages. What's a few bucks' difference anyway?

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#98

Post by vosper »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #77
khedoros1 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like the logical conclusion. Where's the dividing line between what the government should and shouldn't regulate, if they judge it to be in the best interests of the people (and the government's will being theoretically derived from the collective will of the governed)?

The government's will being theoretically derived from the collective will of the governed should not be used as a blanket appeal to authority. The people probably do not like all of their private communication being spied on by the NSA. That we've not yet elected officials and given them the power to stop such spying doesn't mean it's acceptable. Moving on, the people should by default be free to make decisions that…

> Taking away liberty must be very, very carefully considered

I agree, and it's possible that this move has been very carefully considered. The obesity levels are catastrophic, and the trend has been clear for years (maybe decades), so it's quite possible that this move has been considered for some time before finally being implemented. There's no reason not to give the benefit of the doubt here.

I'd also add that any move to take away liberty needs to be reviewed at some point. Otherwise the tendency is for more and more regulation. Then typically the only way things get changed is by major lobbying efforts, which can takes years or decades, or when a negative effect on society has become such a problem that it's no longer possible to ignore it. In the meantime, a lot of people have had their lives impacted.

> Banning imported food at tourist established is a much less obvious win

Yeah, though maybe that part is related to the "effort to promote local agriculture" that's also mentioned in the article. It still seems like something that would have little actual impact - it's hard to believe that tourists are coming and only eating junk food, and not any food that's locally grown. No-one goes on holiday and eats only Pringles.

Or maybe it's about perceived fairness - staff at tourist resorts have access to foods that the rest of the population can't buy, so they remove that access to put everyone on the same level.

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#99

Post by Retric »

iopq wrote: post #74
jodrellblank wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever known anyone to overeat on cauliflower until they get obese and diabetic? Let alone a population of three million people doing it? The food is designed to be a hyperstimulus, moreish beyond anything humans would find to eat in the wild. How is the food not the problem?

cauliflower is low in calories, so it would just be physically difficult to eat that much cauliflower but bananas? Yes, some people get fat eating too many fruits

Bananas have ~100 calories each and act as a Diuretic makeing eating large numbers of them on a regular basis unpleasant. So, I am going to call BS.

You can gain weight on a high fruit diet, but bananas are an unusual choice. Fruit juice on the other hand is much easier way to gain weight, but like most processed foods less heathy.

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#100

Post by nradov »

gydfi wrote: post #93
realusername wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I've tried to argue for the French ban of unlimited soda refills, I was called a "Stalinist" so I probably won't say much on this one. I hope it will help to reduce their obesity rates.

The "Stalinism" isn't so much about the actual soda, but more about the attitude that the government should have the power to just step in and ban whatever the hell someone has decided is a bad idea this week. Once you move from the presumption of freedom to the presumption that anything that might have negative consequences should be banned, it's hard to get back. Personally I believe that whatever consenting adults…

The French haven't banned soda. Consenting adults can still buy as much as they want (or can afford).
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