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Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

susanjfowler.com

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Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#341

Post by Mz »

projektir wrote: post #334
Mz wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good comment, but: That being said, I don't know if I'd call "she should sue" victim-blaming, even though the reason is probably about the same. This reminds me of some of the BS I have seen where people insist a woman should prosecute her rapist. One of the problems with this line of reasoning is that it makes it the victim's responsibility to try to right this wrong. What if she just wants to put the whole damn thi…

Hmm, perhaps I misunderstand the term? I thought victim blaming referred to specifically blaming the victim for the event itself as / before it happened. Not for what the victim did or didn't do afterwards. Unsolicited advice, in poor taste, but not victim blaming by the definition I'm aware of. I think most people here asking to sue want to see Uber pay, and they don't really have any equivalent leverage against Ube…

Sorry if it wasn't perfectly clear: I didn't say that it was victim blaming, just that it is problematic in a way that is not much different from victim blaming. So defending the suggestion as not victim blaming is kind of not great in my book.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#342

Post by chii »

revelation wrote: post #128
shruubi wrote: post #42

As someone who is Australian and not American, if anything like this happened and HR failed in the trainwreck like manner that they did in this story, we have a government organisation that oversees and enforces workplace legislation. It seems insane to me that the only recourse you have after HR is basically "gather evidence and sue" which seems to be common advice in this thread.

You can't sue, there is likely a mandatory arbitration clause in the employment contract (because why not, it's free) and it applies to everything .

arbitration clause should only apply in civil suits, iirc. I would hate to think that sexual harassment is a civil case, rather than criminal.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#343

Post by matchagaucho »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #155
knucklesandwich wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech workers (across all disciplines) need to unionize to combat this kind of thing. As has been pointed out below, HR that is staffed and incentivized by the company management only serves the interests of the management. A union is the only structure that can actually win demands for workers by organizing workers to withhold their labor. It's not a panacea, and there are several historical examples of union leaders…

The problem is that workers don't have leverage like they used to due to globalization and a general labor surplus. We need to think of something that would work better than a union.

It's either unionize or a class action lawsuit. Silicon Valley tends to prefer the latter.

Many IT roles already fall under collective bargaining units (CBU), particularly in the public sector.

If stories like Susan's become common, and there is blatant gender discrimination, then the Government will have no choice but to acknowledge a private-sector CBU and Union.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#344

Post by MAGZine »

bifocald wrote: post #234
krautsourced wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually in these cases, these kind of company politics trickle down from the top, so it's unlikely the CEO does not know or has any interest in intervening. All the companies I worked at that had weird or toxic environments showed that kind of environment throughout most of their structure. A single arsehole in an otherwise great company is usually pushed out sooner than later. If however you notice there are mostly…

Yes. Culture is CEO's responsibility. Period.

Once a culture exists, it is very, very difficult to change, even (especially) if you get a new CEO or an acquisition, etc.

It is true that if you are going to _attempt_ to change a culture, it must be motivated from top-down. However, placing that responsibility on the CEO alone is misunderstanding of how culture works.

It's a little akin to saying that culture is the President's responsibility. No, it's everyone's responsibility, and if you want to change it, the influential people in your org (country) must lead and reinforce that change.

The best you can say is that the founder(s) laid the groundwork for the culture. As with anything, changing the foundation later is extremely difficult.

That's what the research says, anyhow. I studied this briefly during my undergrad.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#345

Post by knucklesandwich »

mariojv wrote: post #261
knucklesandwich wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech workers (across all disciplines) need to unionize to combat this kind of thing. As has been pointed out below, HR that is staffed and incentivized by the company management only serves the interests of the management. A union is the only structure that can actually win demands for workers by organizing workers to withhold their labor. It's not a panacea, and there are several historical examples of union leaders…

Are there any real efforts around this? A quick Google search doesn't show anything obvious. I'm also curious if there are any historical examples of "white collar" workers unionizing.

There's plenty of currently existing unions for professional trade workers. The SEIU, IFPTE, CWA, IBEW, etc. are American unions which represent scientists, engineers, legal assistants, technicians, physicists, nurses, etc. Largely these careers have low union density (as a result of poor uptake of unions throughout the US), but there are plenty of countries (for example many Nordic countries) where its much more common to see these professions unionized.

If you're interested in learning more about how to do this, I suggest you look into one of the following orgs:

- Tech Workers Coalition (https://techworkerscoalition.org/) based in the Bay Area who holds a monthly organizing meeting in SF

- Tech Solidarity (https://techsolidarity.org), which has been holding meetings in a bunch of metropolitan areas for educating tech workers about organizing

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#346

Post by jbarham »

tptacek wrote: post #325
jbarham wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Software developers have incredible leverage right now, perhaps more than any cohort of employees in the country Hah hah, very cute. A trivial proof that this claim is false: H-1B. Indentured H-1B visa workers have absolutely zero leverage. American software developers are constantly reminded that if they don't behave and do what they're told that their jobs will be outsourced or they'll be replaced by H-1B workers…

This does not square even a little bit with the software employment market I'm familiar with, not only in California but in the Midwest. If you believe that H1-B employees are abused in software development shops, that's all the more reason to organize.

> If you believe that H1-B employees are abused...

Of course that would never happen. All American business executives and outsourcing agencies only act with unimpeachable integrity and the highest ethical standards.

(Wait, what is the original subject of this thread again...)

I repeat, for all American programmers under the age of 35, read https://normsaysno.wordpress.com/ to see how your careers are being systematically undermined by your own industry and political leaders. Then make alternative career plans for when you're 40+. You'll thank me later.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#348

Post by santaclaus »

wheelerwj wrote: post #298
projektir wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a pro-drinking culture at my company due to the nature of the business and I haven't found that it's causing any problems. It's generally done outside of work or for specific events, and I've never felt unsafe on any gathering where a lot of drinking was going on. This is a red herring, if anything. I think there's a difference between a culture where people drink a lot vs a culture where people get black out…

> We have a pro-drinking culture at my company due to the nature of the business what? what possible nature of business are you in that makes drinking more (or less) acceptable. There is no such thing. at work, you work. if you want to get drunk, you aren't working.

> There is no such thing.

Works at a bar or brewery? Wine related startup? Sales?

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#349

Post by dgudkov »

madeofpalk wrote: post #208
calcsam wrote: post #15

In case anyone isn't sure why the original interaction is harassment: relationships within a reporting chain are generally prohibited, for both legal, ethical, and practical reasons. Sex becoming part of the effective job description crosses both legal and ethical lines, and team effectiveness is hindered when people wonder whether someone is getting special treatment because they're sleeping with the boss. A manager…

> In case anyone isn't sure why the original interaction is harassment Is there anyone that thought a manager asking their subordinate for sex isn't harassment?

Strictly speaking asking a subordinate for sex is not always a harassment (but very frequently is).

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#350

Post by laser »

hackerboos wrote: post #108
sokoloff wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my positive thing. Taking a cab to the airport from my house in Cambridge, MA runs about $42 before tip, so call it $48 or so. An UberX costs $24.30 right now and UberPool costs $14.30 right now. Additionally, I can summon the ride more easily and get better feedback about the arrival time, giving me more confidence/less anxiety that I'll have a problem getting to the airport on time. As a consumer, by reducin…

That 50-70% is a loss leader for Uber. Did you read the post of their financials? They are hemorrhaging money. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/11/can-uber-ever-deliver...

"Uber passengers were paying only 41% of the actual cost of their trips; Uber was using these massive subsidies to undercut the fares and provide more capacity than the competitors who had to cover 100% of their costs out of passenger fares." Is either mathematically incorrect or extremely misleading. You can't take Uber's cut of passengers payments (~18%) and then divide by Uber's costs to say "passengers were paying only 41% of the actual cost of their trips", as the bulk of the cost of the trip goes directly to the driver. If you take this into account the rider is actually covering about 80% of the total cost of the trip, with Uber subsidizing about 20% of the cost on average, which includes their massive infrastructure building and expansion efforts. This means that even break-even Uber at a 25% higher cost, or a 20% profit margin Uber at a 50% higher cost, is still cheaper (and more convenient and enjoyable) than a taxi.
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