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Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

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Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#311

Post by projektir »

Mz wrote: post #291
grey-area wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit surprised so many people want to give her advice. She's already taken a really bold step and written cogently and in a balanced way about her situation, the toxic culture at Uber, and made it clear she's moved on to a better place. Why talk about what she should be doing and hasn't done as if there is only one way to resolve this? Why not give thanks to the writer for writing this and putting up with all th…

Listing what she can/should/coulda/woulda/shoulda is one way to avoid looking in the mirror and all that. It is one reason victim blaming is popular: If it is the victim's fault, then other people don't have to wonder what they might do differently or get off their lazy duff and walk the walk instead of just engaging in smack talk. I appreciate you making the comment. I don't imagine it will go over well.

> It is one reason victim blaming is popular: If it is their fault, then other people don't have to wonder what they might do differently or get off their lazy duff and walk the walk instead of just engaging in smack talk.

I think the true reason is a bit deeper: victim blaming means that bad events can be compartmentalized to be the victim's problem. So a person engaging in it doesn't have to emotionally deal with the potential problems of the bad event, or even how it could affect them, as they can just say that they would have dealt with it better. A rendition of the just-world hypothesis, really.

That being said, I don't know if I'd call "she should sue" victim-blaming, even though the reason is probably about the same.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#312

Post by billconan »

uber_eng_throw wrote: post #137
logandavis wrote: post #69

By all indications, Uber has a toxic work culture that costs them both top talent and organizational velocity. I'm a college senior at a well-regarded engineering school. My CS classmates - especially women - simply do not apply to Uber, in large part because of its reputation for internal misogyny and general assholery. Four classmates interned there last summer, and as far as I know none are interested in returning…

Hijacking this top comment to provide some personal experiences. I started as an engineer in the spring of 2014 and this was definitely the case there. Top engineers were being poached from Google/FB and these people were trying to carve out territory in a quickly growing engineering team. The misogynistic culture, in my mind, comes from most of the early employees being former frat bros. Culture was extremely heavy…

I went to visit the instagram office on the fb main campus and saw a huge liquor exhibition.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#313

Post by scott_karana »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #50
_skel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, but I should point out that an organization with foresight would not permit harassment of employees, because the long-term cost of the lawsuits and bad publicity will be bad for the organization.

But Uber's entire business plan is about flouting rules and sustainability so that they can become irreplaceable. The sad fact is that they're probably being entirely rational. What's right is often unprofitable, short-term and long-term. Unless they have a big exodus of talent or customers, even a report this embarrassing is unlikely to slow the juggernaut.

That's Uber's strategic focus publically, but HR is an internal department and could conceivably be different, just like how their Marketing team almost certainly doesn't flout (or at least emphasize) flouting of laws.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#314

Post by Mz »

projektir wrote: post #311
Mz wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listing what she can/should/coulda/woulda/shoulda is one way to avoid looking in the mirror and all that. It is one reason victim blaming is popular: If it is the victim's fault, then other people don't have to wonder what they might do differently or get off their lazy duff and walk the walk instead of just engaging in smack talk. I appreciate you making the comment. I don't imagine it will go over well.

> It is one reason victim blaming is popular: If it is their fault, then other people don't have to wonder what they might do differently or get off their lazy duff and walk the walk instead of just engaging in smack talk. I think the true reason is a bit deeper: victim blaming means that bad events can be compartmentalized to be the victim's problem. So a person engaging in it doesn't have to emotionally deal with t…

Good comment, but:

That being said, I don't know if I'd call "she should sue" victim-blaming, even though the reason is probably about the same.

This reminds me of some of the BS I have seen where people insist a woman should prosecute her rapist. One of the problems with this line of reasoning is that it makes it the victim's responsibility to try to right this wrong. What if she just wants to put the whole damn thing behind her and not let it eat any more of her life instead of dragging the pain out longer?

It still hangs something on her instead of other people stepping up to bat.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#315

Post by joering2 »

> Uber was a pretty good-sized company at that time, and I had pretty standard expectations of how they would handle situations like this. I expected that I would report him to HR, they would handle the situation appropriately, and then life would go on - unfortunately, things played out quite a bit differently.

It is my time to thank Hacker News because how many times I read it here rule number one: HR is not there to help you with your issues, but rather to determine how your issues could negatively affect the company PR image and company itself. The don't care about yoy or how to help you out - they care how to make it so that company doesn's suffer because of whatever you going through - weather fair to you or not.

So thank you guys and I'm quite suprised someone like Susan did not know that.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#316

Post by bishnu »

jbarham wrote: post #310
tptacek wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software developers have incredible leverage right now, perhaps more than any cohort of employees in the country, and while most don't have salary to organize around, there are plenty of other practices --- transparency and liquidity of equity compensation being a great example --- that generate a broad base of support across the whole industry. People hear the term "union" and they think "shop rules" and "union cont…

> Software developers have incredible leverage right now, perhaps more than any cohort of employees in the country Hah hah, very cute. A trivial proof that this claim is false: H-1B. Indentured H-1B visa workers have absolutely zero leverage. American software developers are constantly reminded that if they don't behave and do what they're told that their jobs will be outsourced or they'll be replaced by H-1B workers…

It's only leverage because software developers have no solidarity. So yes, an individual can be threatened by this, but in reality the US government only grants 65 000 H-1Bs per year; Such a threat could be made easily irrelevant by even a modicum of organizing.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#317

Post by grzm »

Animats wrote: post #135
hackerboos wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 50-70% is a loss leader for Uber. Did you read the post of their financials? They are hemorrhaging money. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/11/can-uber-ever-deliver...

Uber's biggest investor is Saudi Arabia's Sovereign Wealth Fund.[1] They don't have a problem with the company keeping women in their place. It may even be viewed as a plus, influencing an American company to adopt Saudi values. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/02/technology/uber-investmen...

Do you believe the behavior described in the piece is a result of Saudi investment? Your comment leans in that direction, which is quite an insinuation if that's not what you actually believe to be the case. If so, I'd like to know more about what leads you to believe it is, or is even likely. It seems to me that much more prosaic explanations are likely.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#318

Post by [deleted] »

billconan wrote: post #312
uber_eng_throw wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hijacking this top comment to provide some personal experiences. I started as an engineer in the spring of 2014 and this was definitely the case there. Top engineers were being poached from Google/FB and these people were trying to carve out territory in a quickly growing engineering team. The misogynistic culture, in my mind, comes from most of the early employees being former frat bros. Culture was extremely heavy…

I went to visit the instagram office on the fb main campus and saw a huge liquor exhibition.

[deleted]

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#319

Post by [deleted] »

billconan wrote: post #312
uber_eng_throw wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hijacking this top comment to provide some personal experiences. I started as an engineer in the spring of 2014 and this was definitely the case there. Top engineers were being poached from Google/FB and these people were trying to carve out territory in a quickly growing engineering team. The misogynistic culture, in my mind, comes from most of the early employees being former frat bros. Culture was extremely heavy…

I went to visit the instagram office on the fb main campus and saw a huge liquor exhibition.

[deleted]

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#320

Post by [deleted] »

billconan wrote: post #312
uber_eng_throw wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hijacking this top comment to provide some personal experiences. I started as an engineer in the spring of 2014 and this was definitely the case there. Top engineers were being poached from Google/FB and these people were trying to carve out territory in a quickly growing engineering team. The misogynistic culture, in my mind, comes from most of the early employees being former frat bros. Culture was extremely heavy…

I went to visit the instagram office on the fb main campus and saw a huge liquor exhibition.

[deleted]
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