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As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

nytimes.com

61–70 of 144 posts

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eliminate a policy designed for the betterment of the population! Depends who you ask. Some people understand the risks of junk food but still want it (same as with alcohol and tobacco). Junk food also tends to be cheaper per calorie.

Where does one draw the line? Hard drugs?

> Where does one draw the line? Hard drugs?

Not bellow junk food.

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eliminate a policy designed for the betterment of the population! Depends who you ask. Some people understand the risks of junk food but still want it (same as with alcohol and tobacco). Junk food also tends to be cheaper per calorie.

Where does one draw the line? Hard drugs?

As an individualist, I believe competent adults should be allowed to draw their own line. But if I had to compromise, hard drugs does seem like a more reasonable line.

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#63
post #36
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In countries that provide publicly-funded healthcare you are arguably directly effecting other people's lives by the cost of the medical treatments you'll end up needing if you are obese - these treatments will be funded out of the taxpayer's pocket, when that money could be going to better schooling, infrastructure, or some other use.

This is also true with privately-funded health care based on insurance with shared risk pools that don't take behavioral risk factors in to account. It's the very definition of a moral hazard. But if you accept that argument, where is the line? What personal decisions, if any shouldn't be subject to regulation?

True, but I was arguing that poor personal health choices are not only an indirect negative effect on other people, which is what you said. And I neglected obvious direct negative effects it can have on people close to you, such as children who now have to care for a parent who loses their leg due to diabetes, or who don't get to experience play because of a parent who's so obese and unfit that they can barely walk around without wheezing.

Edit: I can't give you a list of personal decisions that I think should be subject to regulation, because it's not as simple as that, and there's a debate to be had for each one, and that will depend on circumstances and ideology. But I do think that in this case it's reasonable, since the cost of treating diabetes patients is crippling a small, poor country.

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#64
post #59

It doesn't help that there are little healthy options in local schools. Most schools have a single privatised canteen that offers a lunch option (typically chicken curry and rice or chicken chow mein) with the rest being soda drinks, chocolate bars or salty chips. I don't remember apples or bananas being an option unless you brought it from home. But you don't want to be the kid eating a banana when everyone around y…

Even if you eat healthy, eating too much is bad if you get fat.

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#65
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fat slob overflowing the seat next to me on an aeroplane has a direct effect on me and I would be perfectly happy for measures to be taken to mitigate it.

Or we could get rid of anti-discrimination laws and allow airlines to charge based on weight/have assigned seating types. But I imagine that wouldn't go over very well with the people who want to ban junk food.

I'd be fine with both. Where's the conflict?

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#66
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In countries that provide publicly-funded healthcare you are arguably directly effecting other people's lives by the cost of the medical treatments you'll end up needing if you are obese - these treatments will be funded out of the taxpayer's pocket, when that money could be going to better schooling, infrastructure, or some other use.

By that definition there is literally nothing the government can't, and arguably shouldn't, regulate. That won't end badly I'm sure!

That seems like the logical conclusion. Where's the dividing line between what the government should and shouldn't regulate, if they judge it to be in the best interests of the people (and the government's will being theoretically derived from the collective will of the governed)?

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#67
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does one draw the line? Hard drugs?

> Where does one draw the line? Hard drugs? Not bellow junk food.

And the same can't be said of drugs? Many people take psychoactive substances responsibly, and only a small percent develop problems with dependency and abuse.

Hell, I'd be willing to bet that more people who eat junk food become effective "junk food addicts" and develop resultant health problesm as a percentage than do people who use LSD, MDMA, or even cocaine.

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#68
post #59

It doesn't help that there are little healthy options in local schools. Most schools have a single privatised canteen that offers a lunch option (typically chicken curry and rice or chicken chow mein) with the rest being soda drinks, chocolate bars or salty chips. I don't remember apples or bananas being an option unless you brought it from home. But you don't want to be the kid eating a banana when everyone around y…

As someone who went to NYC public school where all food options are extremely unhealthy, I can say that this has mostly to do with culture.

Eastern European immigrants stayed thin. Chinese immigrants stayed thin. Immigrants from some other countries - mostly south america in my personal experience - all gained weight quickly.

The food does make it much easier to gain weight.

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#69
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In countries that provide publicly-funded healthcare you are arguably directly effecting other people's lives by the cost of the medical treatments you'll end up needing if you are obese - these treatments will be funded out of the taxpayer's pocket, when that money could be going to better schooling, infrastructure, or some other use.

By that definition there is literally nothing the government can't, and arguably shouldn't, regulate. That won't end badly I'm sure!

That could be said about anything.

Re: As Obesity Rises, Remote Pacific Islands Plan to Abandon Junk Food

#70
post #12
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has to be filed under, "The constitution is not a suicide pact." No social construct, no system of laws and rights trumps the need to be alive to enjoy them. Given the scale of the problem, they were looking at a situation with an outcome grimmer than most wars. I agree with you, this is extraordinary and requires consummate measures.

I lend a lot of weight to the libertarian non-aggression principle, but I think it's generally a mistake to think about social issues in absolute terms. I really don't like coercion, but the NAP, also shouldn't be a suicide pact.

If you're willing to set the NAP aside for junk food, your bar for setting aside the NAP is likely pretty low. But my own perspective is that of a person who scrutinizes what I put in my body. I've never felt that I needed someone else to make that decision for me.
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