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Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

electrek.co

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Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#61

Post by ptaipale »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #54
kalleboo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PV in Norway sounds like a bad joke. The northern parts get zero daylight hours for 2 weeks in midwinter.

Not a joke at all. Oslo gets more sun than Hamburg. Also take a look at the Energibygg: https://translate.google.no/translate?hl=en&sl=no&u=https://...

The problem is that Oslo, like all the Nordics, gets more sun in the summer when it's less necessary, and practically none in the winter when energy is needed.

Norway has so much hydroelectric capacity that it doesn't matter, though.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#62

Post by ZenoArrow »

ptaipale wrote: post #60
maxsilver wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Used Renault Zoe can be bought for well under 10k EUR. In five years, replace the battery for an extra ~5K EUR (you probably won't need to, my EV battery is 4+ years old with 50k miles on it and still works great, but we'll include it in the cost just to calm your fears) Even including a brand new battery, total cost is still well below your 15K EUR max budget, using real-world numbers you can actually purchase wit…

>A Used Renault Zoe can be bought for well under 10k EUR. What? Where? Denmark? I'd seriously consider. Here (Finland) they are completely unavailable as used, and new ones start at 32 990 €.

The GP linked to a UK website in their comment.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#63

Post by toyg »

gotchange wrote: post #27
digi_owl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the taxes are there, at least in concept, to cover expenses society has when dealing with the "externalities" of said fun. Some of it though is a remnant of a more "puritan" time.

What are the externalities resulting from purchasing a Porsche besides the usual culprits such emissions etc etc? I'm genuinely curious.

The same as for any other car: road accidents, road maintenance and so on.

Most countries, in practice, actually subsidize car ownership by taking back in road tax less of what is actually spent on caring for externalities.

Add to that that, in most of Europe, population density is such that lots of people are actually able to live without a car. Buying a car if you live in a medieval city centre is 100% "for fun" and makes life awkward for everyone (parking and so on).

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#64

Post by ptaipale »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #62
ptaipale wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A Used Renault Zoe can be bought for well under 10k EUR. What? Where? Denmark? I'd seriously consider. Here (Finland) they are completely unavailable as used, and new ones start at 32 990 €.

The GP linked to a UK website in their comment.

Oh. Right-hand drive. Not very good here.

It looks like a new Zoe sells for exactly half the price in UK (14 k£ , 16 400 €) than here in Finland (33 k€). Is there a substantial subsidy on electric cars in UK? Here they have less tax than others.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#65

Post by zdragnar »

vertex-four wrote: post #49
oblio wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his point is that instead of giving the government less money you should work on making sure that the government actually does the right thing with the money it gets.

I have a suspicion the US is way too far gone to try that - the adversarial model (the societal idea of "people vs the Government", rather than the Government being a representative of the people) is not going away any time soon.

It's easy to see government as representative of the people when you live in a small country, or if you're thinking about your local government.

When a government has 300 million+ people to represent, it needs to have very limited responsibilities and powers, because the common interests of so many people are very limited.

That is (cargo culting political attitudes aside) largely why the American relationship with the federal government is "adversarial"- the larger it grows, the easier it is for special, non-representative interests to take advantage of.

There's a similar story played out among union participation here; the larger the union, the less individuals feel that it is working exclusively in their best interests. Likewise: approval for individual congressional representatives is typically high, but Congress itself invariably has very low approval ratings.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#66

Post by paganel »

maxsilver wrote: post #51
paganel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE vehicles are still considerably cheaper compared to EV. Show me a 10,000-15,000 euro electric hatchback that I'd be able to drive for 10+ years without having to purchase expensive batteries every 4-5 years and I'd buy it.

A Used Renault Zoe can be bought for well under 10k EUR. In five years, replace the battery for an extra ~5K EUR (you probably won't need to, my EV battery is 4+ years old with 50k miles on it and still works great, but we'll include it in the cost just to calm your fears) Even including a brand new battery, total cost is still well below your 15K EUR max budget, using real-world numbers you can actually purchase wit…

I was talking about prices of new cars, for 4,000 euros I bought a pretty good 7-year old ICE hatchback which does its job pretty well. I saw that Zoe is priced at around 23,000 euros new, which for a mini-car is really expensive (if you're not a SV engineer, that is)

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#68

Post by jagger27 »

flurdy wrote: post #58
ebbv wrote: post #2

Having owned a Nissan LEAF for the last 2.5 years has been really great. Maintenance is almost nothing, the battery has held up fantastic and the car is a real pleasure to drive. Never having to stop for gas or get oil changes sounds like not a big deal but it is really nice. Every morning the LEAF has a full charge. I think the Bolt and other 200+ mile range vehicles that are fairly affordable will help get more peo…

I think widespread charging plugs in apartment complexes and car parks come with demand and some encouragement with tax breaks over time. People that may already have an EV will prefer complexes with available plugs when moving flats, the government may encourage new complexes to add plugs by default, etc. But it may take time if not general incentives to increase market share of EV are made. I know by my parents 'ho…

> the government may encourage new complexes to add plugs by default, etc.

No need. Any semi-premium builder is more than happy to add features to their spec sheet, and 240V outlets are nothing special. Retro-fitting older places is where things get expensive and iffy.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#69

Post by spikels »

Seems like much of the move to electric vehicles in Norway has been driven by tax incentives (vehicle purchase and fuel). Is the strategy to keep ramping up these incentives until the vast majority of cars are electric in 2025 then simply outlaw new ICE sales?

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#70

Post by hkmurakami »

kalleboo wrote: post #37
simonz05 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla only sold 2 vehicles in Denmark in 2016, dropping from 2800 sold in 2015. This was after the Danish government added the regular registration tax to electric vehicles. That supports the commentators point of view. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=da&tl=en&u=h...

That article is from March 2016, so it was 2 cars sold by March. Would be interesting to see final numbers (12 cars?)

Possibly Fiscal Year, ending in March?
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