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AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Benchmarked – Giving Intel’s $1000 Chips A Run For It

wccftech.com

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Re: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Benchmarked – Giving Intel’s $1000 Chips A Run For It

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This question comes up constantly. Anybody doing anything with more than 16GB, especially data science (think all the R and Python people, all scientists), anybody running a memory cached data store (all server side people on mongo, redis, etc), and anybody doing finance or engineering, wants ECC. Basically anybody doing anything where data persistence is important, and/or where even the slightest chance of silent co…

> Anybody doing anything with more than 16GB, especially data science (think all the R and Python people, all scientists) Not sure I agree. Most science datasets (both from simulations and experiments) are sufficiently noisy that if your scientific end results and conclusions change as a result of even thousands of bitflips in your 16 GB of data, you're Doing It Wrong and your article isn't worth the paper it's print…

> Not sure I agree. Most science datasets (both from simulations and experiments) are sufficiently noisy that if your scientific end results and conclusions change as a result of even thousands of bitflips in your 16 GB of data, you're Doing It Wrong and your article isn't worth the paper it's printed on. (There are probably exceptions, as always, but those working in those few specific subfields should be aware of it.)

There is way too much overreach in this statement. Imagine doing Finite Element or Computational Fluid Dynamics analyses; bitflips of the floating-point values in the field solutions, which could easily make those values completely unphysical, are not the kinds of errors the solvers are written to guard against. In order to do so, you'd need to sanity-check every value, and if you had to use a "guardrail" value, it could easily take a significant number of iterations to recover to the more correct value. Solvers can be easily crashed by corruption of numbers. Sure, if you're lucky enough to have bitflips in low-order mantissa bits, no real harm done. Just don't expect the bitflips to cooperate in this way.

Maybe the "big data" and machine learning crowd don't care about some corrupt values, but most numerical/scientific computing is not so sanguine about corruption.

It is a little frightening how we are moving into significantly larger computational solutions, but are simultaneously increasing our exposure to the fragility and lack of guarantees regarding enormous quantities of perfect bits at all times.

Re: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Benchmarked – Giving Intel’s $1000 Chips A Run For It

#162
I'm trying to put this into perspective.

AMD having temporary edge over Intel has happened before. Remember when AMD had Athlon in 1999 and they made huge $1 billion in profits.

Intel's response has always been the same. They cut their profit margins and start selling chips cheaper. They undercut AMD with volume and price and suddenly AMD is in the doghouse again struggling. AMD's best efforts can cut into Intel's profits, but Intel's response is to remove all profits from AMD until it's left behind.

Just compare these two:

Revenue/gross profit/gross profit margin (Sebtember 2016)

AMD $1.1B/$930 mil/4.5%

INEL $60B/$16B /60+%

Even if you add $5.5B revenue from GLOBALFOUNDRIES (manufacturer of AMD chips) to make AMD camp comparison more relevant, there is large difference.

Re: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Benchmarked – Giving Intel’s $1000 Chips A Run For It

#163
post #59

More importantly for some, it's a 95W AMD part vs a 140W Intel part. If the power delta stays the same even for mainstream parts, does this mean AMD will become a good quiet option too? By quiet I mean "I can't hear it at night" not "I can't hear it over the music". Edit: Also, I think data centers these days are limited in density by power delivery and cooling. Even a 25W delta adds up when you're talking about thou…

Maybe Calyos[0] technology might interest you. Fanless and totally silent technology, here is the other Linus[1] talking about it. [0]: http://www.calyos-tm.com/calyos-fanless-pc-workstation/ [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PJOrfpiVwE

Slick. Heat pipes from CPU and GPU back to a large passive cooler embedded in the case. I'd be curious what the limits are - how much heat can it absorb before the lack of active cooling affects its performance.

Re: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Benchmarked – Giving Intel’s $1000 Chips A Run For It

#164
post #79
post #64

Take everything WCCFTECH writes with a pinch of salt, all of this could still be fake. The Ryzen hype train is on full steam and i really hope they deliver, but i'll wait for official benchmarks. In the last few years, more often than not AMD hardware leaks have shown potential that in the end wasn't met. Things look good for Ryzen though, maybe they can finally make 6-8 Core CPUs mainstream.

Which website would you consider "official"? Anandtech?

By "official" I think he meant the benchmarks done by the websites themselves, using proper methodologies. In this article the benchmark was submitted by a user, using synthetic tests from a single application.

Re: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Benchmarked – Giving Intel’s $1000 Chips A Run For It

#165
post #59

More importantly for some, it's a 95W AMD part vs a 140W Intel part. If the power delta stays the same even for mainstream parts, does this mean AMD will become a good quiet option too? By quiet I mean "I can't hear it at night" not "I can't hear it over the music". Edit: Also, I think data centers these days are limited in density by power delivery and cooling. Even a 25W delta adds up when you're talking about thou…

TDP is a bit tricky to compare in this situation. The TDP of Intels HEDT chips is dictated by their 256-bit wide AVX units which drive power consumption through the roof when fully loaded, and the chips don't get nearly as hot when AVX isn't being used. Ryzen doesn't have this edge case because it sticks with 128-bit SIMD units and runs AVX instructions over two clock cycles. I expect the "140W" Intel part will have…

And a likely reason why Intel tried to push the whole "Scenario Design Power" concept a few years back.

Re: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Benchmarked – Giving Intel’s $1000 Chips A Run For It

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you sum it up quite good: The thing that Intel did mostly was putting more cores on the chips. However that happenend only for the server lines. With Sandybridge and before the top desktop and server chips were nearly identical, now there's a huge difference. Which also means that during the last years the performance of desktop CPUs increased barely. That might be ok from the point of view that normal users…

There's been a fork in CPU design goals. Before, the fastest chip was the goal. Now, we have fast single-threaded vs high parallel throughput - and while there's a spectrum between them, the extremes matter, it's not a case of a Goldilocks solution. Consumer loads are mostly limited by single threaded performance, though software is increasingly written for more cores. Best choice for a consumer used to be dual core,…

You also had the whole thing AMD seemed to be attempting with their first gen APU design, shifting the floating point workload over to GPGPUs rather than use a dedicated floating point unit.

Re: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Benchmarked – Giving Intel’s $1000 Chips A Run For It

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it still true? http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/feature-integrated-graphics-f...

>newest Intel iGPU vs two-gen old AMD iGPU, barely keeping pace Yes, it's still true. That should've been plainly obvious.

Both are from 2015:

https://ark.intel.com/products/88040/Intel-Core-i7-5775C-Pro...

http://cpuboss.com/cpu/AMD-A10-7870K

Re: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Benchmarked – Giving Intel’s $1000 Chips A Run For It

#168
post #64

Take everything WCCFTECH writes with a pinch of salt, all of this could still be fake. The Ryzen hype train is on full steam and i really hope they deliver, but i'll wait for official benchmarks. In the last few years, more often than not AMD hardware leaks have shown potential that in the end wasn't met. Things look good for Ryzen though, maybe they can finally make 6-8 Core CPUs mainstream.

My experience is they actually do deliver promises, yet always too late. It was the case with the 120Mhz 80486, the K6-2, the Athlon, the Opteron, and I'm just getting started. All about as fast as their marketing claimed, but simply too late so the nextgen Intel caught up for the most part.

Bulldozer and recent GPUs like Fury/X or 3xx/4xx Series underdelivered after initial rumors had them beating everything.

Re: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Benchmarked – Giving Intel’s $1000 Chips A Run For It

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If ZFS is anything like BTRFS, then I don't think ECC is super necessary. Yeah, it'll prevent problem from eventually cropping up when the RAM shits itself, but it's not like those issues compound silently in the night. When my ram started going a bit down the drain, (Flipping the occasional bit. Rare enough that the system still ran fine) I was hounded with checksum errors and any attempt to work with the data was m…

IDK, I've seen some odd RAM failure modes where the base OS would run fine, but then depending on the load (e.g. games) some weird stuff would happen like a BSOD after exactly minutes of gameplay. Once ZFS writes corrupted metadata with corrupted checksums to the disk, it's very hard to recover that data. Yes, ZFS is not backup, but the implications of serving clients messed up data is also worrying in certain busine…

Once any filesystem writes data that was corrupted in memory, the data is hard to recover. And any filesystem will serve this corrupted data if asked, since it is all that it has. This is not a ZFS specific failure mode.

Without ECC, ZFS loses one of the guarantees that it otherwise provides. But it only degrades down to how bad every filesystem is in the face of memory corruption - not worse.

Re: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Benchmarked – Giving Intel’s $1000 Chips A Run For It

#170
post #7

What about ECC memory? Intels desktop processors fail hard on that feature.

Why do you need that in desktop env? What's the usecase when it can be beneficial to have expensive ECC RAM instead of the ordinary one? I was always thinking that ECC can prevent blue screens/kernel faults, but I haven't seen those in years on my laptop without ECC.

Why the downvotes? It is a legitimate question, because ECC is very uncommon in desktops and laptops.

Companies I worked for used those only on the servers where we run critical stuff, not a single developer laptop had ECC.

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