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'Artificial life' breakthrough announced by scientists

news.bbc.co.uk

91–97 of 97 posts

Re: 'Artificial life' breakthrough announced by scientists

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope they included checkbits!

it may be a misconception but i think that checkbits are a feature of organic dna?

Yep! There is some error-checking built into dna-replication. The protein that does the replication is called DNA Polymerase. From its wikipedia article:

Error correction is a property of some, but not all, DNA polymerases. This process corrects mistakes in newly-synthesized DNA. When an incorrect base pair is recognized, DNA polymerase reverses its direction by one base pair of DNA. The 3'-5' exonuclease activity of the enzyme allows the incorrect base pair to be excised (this activity is known as proofreading). Following base excision, the polymerase can re-insert the correct base and replication can continue.

Re: 'Artificial life' breakthrough announced by scientists

#92

Here are my questions about this, hope you smart folks don't mind chiming in: How do you physically put DNA into a cell? A very small needle? Or is there something fancier? How were the synthesized pieces of DNA produced? Very tiny robotic hands pushing the molecules together in the right sequence? How did they stitch together the synthesized pieces of DNA? What would say which pieces go with which?

Bacteria will often take up DNA from their environment, and this ability, called "competence" is widely used in molecular biology. In this case, they treated the cells with a chemical called polyethylene glycol, which increases the efficiency by which the cells can pick up the DNA molecules. The procedure for transplanting genomes was described by the same group in a paper in 2007. It is possible to use a small needle ("DNA microinjection") to inject DNA into cells; one can also use an electric field to disrupt the cell membrane and force DNA into a cell, which is called electroporation. In this case though, the PEG transformation was sufficient (and because these artificial chromosomes were so large, they might not survive being shot through a needle or zapped with electricity too well).

The initial pieces of DNA (oligonucleotides) are synthesized chemically - the components are added to a reaction one at a time, and the reaction is controlled so that at each step, only one base gets added. There is a lot of chemistry optimization and QC to be able to make relatively long fragments accurately. They ordered the building block pieces (1080 bases long) from a company called Blue Heron, which specializes in putting together long DNA molecules.

The sequences were designed to be partially overlapping, so that the complementary sequences could fit together. Overlapping pieces of DNA can be combined by a process called homologous recombination. There is existing machinery in the yeast cells that they used to join together such complementary sequences. The molecules were assembled hierarchically, so they first made 10kb fragments, then put 10 x 10kb together to make 100kb fragments, and then finally put the 10 100kb fragments together. The overlapping sequences at the ends determined which fragments will stick together.

Re: 'Artificial life' breakthrough announced by scientists

#93
post #16

Call me a luddite, genetic engineering gives me the willies.

Luddite. In all seriousness, the dangers brought up in the article can only come from a person lacking significant knowledge of bacteria. Unimaginable numbers of bacteria permeate every part of the world, including miles within the earth, deep sea volcanic vents, radioactive waste, the rain drops falling on our heads, and us, up our noses, in our skin pores, our guts, etc. Those simple bacteria evolve at staggering r…

>Those simple bacteria evolve at staggering rates, and swap genes like DJ Danger Mouse mixing tracks.

But they only evolve to the brink of failure

http://crnano.typepad.com/crnblog/2009/05/natural-protein-vs...

Re: 'Artificial life' breakthrough announced by scientists

#94

Here are my questions about this, hope you smart folks don't mind chiming in: How do you physically put DNA into a cell? A very small needle? Or is there something fancier? How were the synthesized pieces of DNA produced? Very tiny robotic hands pushing the molecules together in the right sequence? How did they stitch together the synthesized pieces of DNA? What would say which pieces go with which?

Bacteria will often take up DNA from their environment, and this ability, called "competence" is widely used in molecular biology. In this case, they treated the cells with a chemical called polyethylene glycol, which increases the efficiency by which the cells can pick up the DNA molecules. The procedure for transplanting genomes was described by the same group in a paper in 2007. It is possible to use a small needl…

Wow thanks. That explains a lot.

What's PEG? The electrical method you mentioned?

So if the DNA pieces overlapped did that overlapping base pairs somehow get removed when the pieces were joined? Otherwise I'd think the next final DNA sequence would look a lot different from what they were intending to copy.

Re: 'Artificial life' breakthrough announced by scientists

#95
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Really, it's the height of hubris to think that we can engineer something that works as well as what untold generations has evolved." Why? Technological progress through logical deduction is patently more efficient than evolution through natural selection. Modern technology has already far surpassed the capabilities of natural organisms in a number of areas, all within a geologically minute timespan. Just because a…

"Why? Technological progress through logical deduction is patently more efficient than evolution through natural selection. Modern technology has already far surpassed the capabilities of natural organisms in a number of areas, all within a geologically minute timespan." There's a lot of hubris packed up into that statement. I really don't think you're considering the whole effort, the economy, the resources, the ext…

"I really don't think you're considering the whole effort, the economy, the resources, the externalities that are involved in all those things that "surpass" natural organisms."

No, I have, and that's precisely the point. Our technology doesn't exist in a vacuum; it's an integral part of our civilisation. Machines do require an enormous amount of resources to back them, but so what? It's the end result that matters.

Many cells in nature also require relatively vast resources to be of use. For example, a mammal sperm cell requires billions of cells and massive amounts of resources to be of use. Take the sperm cell out of the body, and it will die far quicker than your car will rust.

"And it's far from clear to me that logical deduction is more efficient than evolution. Evolution can certainly result in silly designs, that's for sure (the retina's layering, vas deferens' route, etc.); but evolution also has an appetite for complexity and resilience far exceeding anything the human mind can grasp today, aided or not."

Yes, but it has had a few billion years head start, whilst the scientific method is only a few hundred years old.

From a computer science perspective, evolution and science both involve accumulating information and processing this information to produce useful designs. The pace of change, therefore, is dictated by how fast information can be gathered, and how much processing power can be applied to it.

Bacteria are particularly successful in this area. They are continuously passing around information and testing new designs. There is no intelligence involved in this process, but they make up for it through sheer numbers. Bacteria are, essentially, an unimaginably vast distributed computing network, continuously sifting through information and applying genetic algorithms to it.

We have a far smaller computing network, made up of our own neurons and our manufactured microchips. However, despite being trillions of times smaller, our networks are vastly more efficient. If they weren't, then death rates from bacterial infection would remain constant, yet they've been falling globally, and in developed countries, dying of a bacterial infection is today extremely rare.

Re: 'Artificial life' breakthrough announced by scientists

#96
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are faster than land animals. Planes are faster than birds. Fuel, jet fuel. Biology doesn't produce the wheel. Tumble weeds? Insects which curl up into a wheel to quickly roll away from danger? Can a car drive up stairs? Indeed if we genetically engineered a large animal to run on gasoline AND provided it with an ample supply of gasoline, it would move faster than anything else... as long as it had gasoline. If…

> Ebola, HIV, the flu de jour all quite terrifying, all 100% natural. If you can't imagine anything more terrifying than those, it is a failure of imagination. See Jared Diamond's point about how when humans and large animals coevolved gradually in Africa, the animals could gradually adapt, whereas when fully evolved homo sapiens were introduced in the rest of the world 40,000 years ago, almost all the megafauna were…

I can easily imagine an HIV that's as easy to transmit as the common cold.

Franky we got lucky with HIV, it could have been something like that and we along with cheetahs and a few other species don't have much genetic diversity within the species and are thus susceptible to extinction via disease.

This is why I want the biotech pedal to the metal. Because in my opinion the probably of us accidental creating something horrific are far less then something horrific being created quite naturally. Like in some shared living space with humans and domestic animals, it could happen in any given moment and spread quickly around the world. We don't need labs to die of something horrible.

Re: 'Artificial life' breakthrough announced by scientists

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bacteria will often take up DNA from their environment, and this ability, called "competence" is widely used in molecular biology. In this case, they treated the cells with a chemical called polyethylene glycol, which increases the efficiency by which the cells can pick up the DNA molecules. The procedure for transplanting genomes was described by the same group in a paper in 2007. It is possible to use a small needl…

Wow thanks. That explains a lot. What's PEG? The electrical method you mentioned? So if the DNA pieces overlapped did that overlapping base pairs somehow get removed when the pieces were joined? Otherwise I'd think the next final DNA sequence would look a lot different from what they were intending to copy.

PEG is the abbreviation for PolyEthylene Glycol. Just a chemical they add that makes the transformation work more efficiently.

DNA, as you probably know, is a double-stranded molecule, and the strands have complementary sequences. When the overlapping pieces are joined, one strand of one molecule overlaps with its complement on the other piece, and vice versa - the pieces aren't just joined end-to-end.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homologous_recombination for all the details.

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