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Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

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Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#11

Do you bring it up proactively? I'm not a HR manager so I cant say how appropriate it is but If I was interviewing someone and they let me know they have autism and it affects their communication skills I would be much more understanding than when I'm interviewing someone who just seems to have poor communication skills for no obvious reason. Remote work might also be a good option. A part from the anger your written…

I don't say I'm autistic, no. I have wondered bringing it up, but I don't like the handy caps. I never wanted extra time in exams. My brain works so well in so many wells thanks to my autism. I've genuinely never seen it as a drawback. The only time it's a problem is when people decide it's a problem. And the problem isn't that I don't want to assimilate, I simply don't understand how. I don't know how to make a joke…

Just take the joke of another person and tell that one. You don't have to make your own jokes

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#12
post #9

I'm going to toss this out in hopes that it will hope, though I fear that you may take my words wrong. I understand that this is a rant, but I'm concerned about some of the words that you chose. Consider some of these phrases: > And honestly, I don't even see why my autism is a problem. I've always seen my autism and quietness as my super power, and it drive me nuts that you people don't see that too. > I was going t…

Thanks dude. That was nice to read. No, I'm not very confrontational and in general I've learnt to act normal very well. If you met me at a meetup or something you probably wouldn't guess I'm autistic at all. I've honestly spent years working on my social skills and it's paid of quite well. In interviews the issue really only comes in when I'm asked really vague questions like, "what gets you excited?" I don't really…

I don't need help, I just need people to be understanding that some people like to be left alone and take a little longer to figure out a good way to express themselves.

Consider this logically. Which would be the most optimal and efficient solution to your problem; learning to change your own behavior and expectations, or expecting the whole world to adapt to you?

Btw, I have similar difficulties in expressing myself verbally and can relate to your issues very well. I'm probably a lot older than you though, so I've had a few years to work on my 'soft' skills. I'd say I'm only moderately annoying by now, I'm aiming for 'quaint' by the end of the year.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#13
post #9

I'm going to toss this out in hopes that it will hope, though I fear that you may take my words wrong. I understand that this is a rant, but I'm concerned about some of the words that you chose. Consider some of these phrases: > And honestly, I don't even see why my autism is a problem. I've always seen my autism and quietness as my super power, and it drive me nuts that you people don't see that too. > I was going t…

Thanks dude. That was nice to read. No, I'm not very confrontational and in general I've learnt to act normal very well. If you met me at a meetup or something you probably wouldn't guess I'm autistic at all. I've honestly spent years working on my social skills and it's paid of quite well. In interviews the issue really only comes in when I'm asked really vague questions like, "what gets you excited?" I don't really…

There should exist companies with cultures friendly to people like you. I'm quite surprised that given your high level skills and what seems very minor communication problems, anyone actually judges you that hard. Seems like you had very bad luck with your working environments. Have you tried to research companies with spesific culture that could suit you well? Also maybe you could start your own business and avoid unwanted communication this way?

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#14
A lot of commenters are going to try to pick you apart, so instead of that I'm going to tell you an anecdote about what's wrong in this world.

I know a guy who literally could not program, he was hired as a HTML & CSS front-end guy. He was extremely arrogant and always tried to act like he knew what he was doing when it was clear he had no clue, any sort of attempt at teaching would be met with a smug "yeah I already knew how to do that" reply. He wasn't even good at HTML or CSS, either. But he really did know how to suck up to HR, his boss, the management, and getting others to help him do his job. From the outside it seemed like he was competent, but in fact he was skilled at playing people. It would be a win-win for everyone if he was a manager, so his co-workers never have to deal with his horrible, bug-ridden code. This is the type of guy that gets ahead in life while brilliant programmers who lack the over-socialization that is expected these days live on welfare, with parents, or on the streets.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#15
I've been reading over this thread and it seems to me that you would be better off freelancing or being a consultant then actually working a steady job. Your attitude screams "just let me get the job done and don't bother me" which I personally think is ok, but doesn't fit the open office culture that most technology companies are doing.

Lastly, if you really do work faster / better then most developers you worked with then you "should" have came across a competent manager who knows your worth. In the companies i've worked for, managers has always made exceptions for people who produce great work and don't partake in the social schemes. I have friends that basically found a manager who knows their worth and have followed that manager to every new opportunity, essentially being a valuable tool in the managers toolbox.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#16
Your self-diagnosed autism is only part of your problem, your attitude is the bigger issue. You need to drastically reevaluate yourself and your expectations.

First, let me explain why I wouldn't hire you based on what you've written here. For starters, communication is a huge part of the job. Writing code is only one part - clarifying vague or contradictory requirements, helping coworkers, updating on progress, sharing lessons learned, etc are all equally important.

Hiring you also sounds like a huge risk and liability to the company. Every tech company tries to hire and retain women and minority employees and even a single accusation of a hostile work environment or a single incident can tank a company. If I hire you and one of your rude statements or misunderstood communications turns into a blog post on jezebel, I'm probably getting fired as well as putting the entire company at risk. Even if that doesn't happen, my A players are probably going to start looking for better opportunities if they're forced to deal with your toxic attitude in the workplace.

Autism isn't a super power. It's a handicap. You need to drastically check your ego and approach the world as it is rather than how you wish it was. You are very bad at something which is very important (communication).

Approach the the problem of "How can I communicate better?" in the same way you would approach any other challenge - read books, work with experts, ask for help, experiment and see what the results of trying different things is, etc. Change your perspective to accepting you are inferior at one aspect of your job and work to increase proficiency, instead of getting angry that the rest of the world doesn't share in your belief of your superiority.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#17
First off you can't self diagnosis yourself with a mental illness. Even experts in the field don't self diagnosis because you have to be objective. Someone that sees a pink elephant from time to time still has to ask someone else if they see it to. There might actually be a pink elephant wondering around.

Second you don't have to be a office social butterfly to have good communication skills. Communication skills is being able to portray information to someone so they can understand it. It is one of the most difficult thing for humans to do.

Thirdly even if you do have autism doesn't mean shit. I have a ton of friends that have been diagnosis with different kinds of autisms. They don't use it as a escape goat nor should any one.

Sorry you having difficulty fitting in with others and getting a job. You did it once so it is mostly likely you will do it again just keep grinding away.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#18
Hello, here are a few tricks which helped me : There are a few ways which will probably help you improve your communication skills. You can try to use Avaz app from Ajit Narayanan, or at least listen to his ted talk. You can also try to pick up some (silent) violin and learn it on your own by playing it by ear (try to avoid using scores as much as possible, try to set-up a routine of around 30min a day, you should aim for "natural" and "fun" absolutely not forced). Something will click one day, it won't make you less autistic, but it will probably show you the way normal people think. Then you will probably get that as for you it's probably not fun being around certain other people which don't get you, the feeling is reciprocal and it's not fun for them being around people that don't get them.

Depending where you live in Europe around 80% of people are quite nice naturally, and will help you if you tell them you struggle or ask for help (but most won't usually understand or care about your autism problems). Avoid the other 20%, they are just exploiting you or making fun of you.

Regarding interviews, try researching a fitting environment. Interviews can usually be hacked quite easily with a little training. Basically you tell them the response they want to hear. If you don't know what to say to a question, either you say "I don't understand", or you grab the most important word of the question and tell them something vaguely connected to it. Obviously the more interview rounds there are, the more chance there is that someone won't like you and puts its veto. Don't attach too much importance to it.

Once you land a job, try to go about two times slower than you can. This way you won't burn out (and be in a bad mood), people won't actively try to prey on you (to get you to do their work), and you will have enough mental energy to naturally pick-up communication skills. (You just earn yourself 20 hours a week to work on improving your communication skills, and even your company will be happy about it trust me).

Also don't be afraid to take welfare. We are in a society which is designed to take advantage of people with autism. It's like taking candy from a baby. So at least take the money, and if you don't need it then give it to someone who does. Or you can keep the money and give some of your time to help some who needs it.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#19

First off you can't self diagnosis yourself with a mental illness. Even experts in the field don't self diagnosis because you have to be objective. Someone that sees a pink elephant from time to time still has to ask someone else if they see it to. There might actually be a pink elephant wondering around. Second you don't have to be a office social butterfly to have good communication skills. Communication skills is…

Should we be calling Autism an illness? Like OP I feel like this condition is not a negative thing, just a different thing with some drawbacks and benefits.

Communication and socialization are different categories. Personally, communication isn't an issue if it is goal oriented. When I do not understand the goal of many social situations, communication does not follow.

When you get fired for not being chatty enough and you cannot change even if you wanted to then autism means something. Not a scape goat but god dammit people need to understand "a culture fit" does not mean hiring friends.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get a job because poor communication skills

#20
I also have Aspergers (or I should say had, because the diagnosis doesn't exist anymore). And yes, it sucks. I really wish I had some answers for you. I've always tried to fit in to the best of my ability, but they always see through me. It is a paradox that you can be very smart in other ways but not smart enough to execute behavior to make you a respected member of a group.

Sadly, it is perhaps so that regular software development is not a good career path for autists anymore because of the shift from hard to soft skills that has happened in the last 15 years. Maybe other avenues are more suitable, like book writing, lecturing or something.

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