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What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

arstechnica.com

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Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#471

Post by shitgoose »

pvg wrote: post #393
coldtea wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not 'as if' Actually it is just like that. What part did you find unlike that? The "sovereignty"? Mexico, which I used as my example, is also sovereign. And the rest of the things are all true: Ukraine is directly in Russia's borders, it has areas with large ethnic Russian population, and it's legitimate government was toppled. Even the part about bona fide neo-nazis being part of the power coalition is true.…

it's legitimate government was toppled. Even the part about bona fide neo-nazis being part of the power coalition is true. This is inaccurate and you can read pretty much any reporting that isn't from RT at the time that confirms that it is not. No, I'm rather not force-fed with BS west propaganda for the events. (And I'm not Russian either, so it's not like I have a horse in the race. I just can't stand hypocrisy).…

"This is inaccurate "

if RT is not trustworthy, google "azov battalion" and click on images. more about its people and their role in government:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#472

Post by OJFord »

MiddleEndian wrote: post #402
OJFord wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this being accepted as even remotely reasonable? What about 'login with Facebook' sites? We here know that we should change our password and logout of existing sessions ASAP after being made to do it, but our non-technical family members may not. "Add TSA as a friend" is borderline reasonable, (pun intended) "give us your password" is not even close. It also damages public awareness of importance of maintainin…

Login with gmail/Facebook isn't that awful. They won't get your login credentials and you don't have to set a password. It's kind of like having a super fast "verification email" every time you log in.

Yes, but my point is that a user who has handed over Facebook access has with it handed over 'login with Facebook' access.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#473

Post by OJFord »

zeveb wrote: post #409
OJFord wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing my point entirely: People do 'login with Facebook'; people will (perhaps grudgingly) log in for them/hand over their password. You won't, I won't, but people will because they're asked to by the uniformed officer, despite how mad it is. I'm just amazed at the lack of significant opposition to this, there doesn't even really seem to be any opposition. Here on HN where one might expect it to be most oppo…

> I'm just amazed at the lack of significant opposition to this I'm amazed at all the many ways people will give up their rights, and yet folks continue to advocate for their rights to be taken away. > Here on HN where one might expect it to be most opposed, we're merely discussing how to mitigate the effects (you can't, don't go - or be prepared to be turned around). I can't change the law, but I can change my behav…

> they rarely do it (roughly 4,500 times last year, IIRC)

My mistake, I hadn't heard of this until recently (and clearly didn't read the article properly) and assumed it was a new policy under Trump.

At a rate of around 0.0012%, and assuming it's more targeted than random, my actual chance of being asked is much lower, yes sure, that probably is worth the risk of being turned around.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#474

Post by mgbmtl »

aceofspades19 wrote: post #452
mgbmtl wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal, but: I suspect that the CBP have very specific criteria that can flag specific situations. I know someone who would systematically get arrested/interrogated by plain clothes officers if she was returning back to Canada alone. When not alone, no problem. Once, she was on the point of being arrested, when she pointed to her partner, and they stepped back. Although they never wanted to admit why. After a bit…

CBP is Customs and Border Protection which is the American department for that. Canada has the CBSA - Canadian Border Services Agency. So you wouldn't get harassed by the CBP if you were entering Canada, it would be the CBSA.

sorry yes, I meant the CBSA :)

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#475

Post by zeveb »

caf wrote: post #449
zeveb wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So we're not catching "real" spies and terrorists; we're catching nannies trying to get paid under the table; do you think maybe we've got bigger fish to fry? This is a bad precedent, and what are we gaining? Nothing. A country which controls its borders gains … control of its borders. If it's illegal to enter a country as a tourist in order to live with one's girlfriend, well it's illegal to enter that country as…

That doesn't address the question of balance between the seriousness of the illegality and the invasiveness of the investigatory technique. It would certainly be feasible to require every vehicle to be fitted with a data/position logger so that a vast number of hitherto undetected breaches of the laws governing the road can be immediately detected and punished - but it's pretty clear that the invasiveness of this is…

> That doesn't address the question of balance between the seriousness of the illegality and the invasiveness of the investigatory technique.

No, it doesn't, because I addressed the statement, 'What are we gaining? Nothing.'

I don't support the policy at all; I think it's a fundamental human right to encrypt data and not have to give the password to anyone.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#476

Post by zeveb »

OJFord wrote: post #473
zeveb wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm just amazed at the lack of significant opposition to this I'm amazed at all the many ways people will give up their rights, and yet folks continue to advocate for their rights to be taken away. > Here on HN where one might expect it to be most opposed, we're merely discussing how to mitigate the effects (you can't, don't go - or be prepared to be turned around). I can't change the law, but I can change my behav…

> they rarely do it (roughly 4,500 times last year, IIRC) My mistake, I hadn't heard of this until recently (and clearly didn't read the article properly) and assumed it was a new policy under Trump. At a rate of around 0.0012%, and assuming it's more targeted than random, my actual chance of being asked is much lower, yes sure, that probably is worth the risk of being turned around.

> My mistake, I hadn't heard of this until recently (and clearly didn't read the article properly) and assumed it was a new policy under Trump.

The really great thing about having a Republican (even if only technically) president is that the news media suddenly rediscover the virtues of small government, and the dangers of an unbalanced power structure (a similar phenomenon holds with Democratic presidents & conservatives). It'd be awesome if people would just be principled, but apparently that is too much to ask.

> At a rate of around 0.0012%, and assuming it's more targeted than random, my actual chance of being asked is much lower, yes sure, that probably is worth the risk of being turned around.

Yes, but I just carry a clean device with no access to my accounts. I can honestly and without deception say that I cannot do what is asked.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#478

Post by whatever_dude »

jacquesm wrote: post #391
somethingsimple wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's weird, I think it's pretty awesome. But I'm biased, since I'm Brazilian :)

I'm not Brazilian and I think it's awesome too. More countries should do this.

I am Brazilian, and I think it's an outdated measure that serves little to no benefit, especially for Brazil itself.

It's fun (in a semi-vengeful way) to submit, say, Americans to the same level of scrutiny they apply to Brazilians. But it also means you're creating artificial barriers against making the country a more popular tourism destination. People in some countries are just not used to having to go throw all these hops to get to visit a country, just because they don't have to; when they learn that they have to go to a consulate in person, in select cities, stand in line for hours, go through an interview, and pay about $150 or so for the right to visit the country, they're quick to change their mind and just pick some other destination that is either easier or that allows you to do all of that online.

The country is basically making it difficult for people to bring you money.

This policy hurts Brazil more than it hurts anyone else.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#479

Post by whatever_dude »

type0 wrote: post #443
whatever_dude wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brazil has a weird policy (the "reciprocity" law) that makes them apply to visitors from some countries whatever that country applies to visitors from Brazil. In theory that only applies to what kind of visas are necessary, but often they do so in terms of immigration/customs policy too. So yeah, a while ago the US started requiring electronic fingerprints from Brazilian visitors (and everyone else I think?) so that'…

It does make sense to do this, more countries need to stand up and say if you treat our citizens this way we are going treat yours the same. I mean the travelers interact with border control and the citizens are the only ones who legitimately can bring these complains to their border agencies. Ultimately it comes to be that citizens need to defend non-citizens rights and "reciprocity" policy might be effective becaus…

This policy has been in place for decades with no change. That makes me doubt it effectiveness. I've heard of plenty of USA -> BR travelers being turned away at the border because they didn't realize they needed visas (a common occurrence for people traveling for conferences). Ultimately they understand the reasons and even empathize with the country, but it doesn't change the fact that for them it's easier to just not come.

To me it's more about an ineffective, vain attempt to show power than anything else.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#480

Post by logfromblammo »

angry_octet wrote: post #427
logfromblammo wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're atheist, agnostic, or nonreligious, and are forced to declare a religion, just say "Unitarian Universalist". Official church doctrine is essentially, "believe whatever you want; spirituality is a deeply personal experience, yet it can be shared with others".

Wonder if they accept Pastafarians?

Show up in your colander and full pirate regalia, write a blog post about your experience, and submit the link to HN.
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