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Re: undefined

#41

Post by InclinedPlane »

invisible wrote: post #6

If even one person at Facebook was threatened with violence for not taking down the pages, I think that it would be irresponsible and dumb to not meet those demands given the track record of SOME parts of the Muslim religion. The fact is I would be offended if Facebook didn't do this and I was an employee of Facebook.

Yes. It's best to give in to bullies. To subjugate our freedoms and compromise our principles to whomever has the sharpest knife to our throat.

Yes, surely that is the way to make all our lives better. How could it possibly go wrong?

Re: undefined

#42

Post by peters »

plinkplonk 2--> Well you gave a pathetic example. I really feel sorry saying this but in response to your example, here is mine. You do not want your mom to get raped but why would stop other people to rape her? means you respect her right and she is the most important person in your life. I am a christian but I really feel sorry when I see comments like you have written. Why do we need to draw cartoon I mean cant we just think about other issues? why are you bothered about other religions?

Re: undefined

#43

Post by kashif »

plinkplonk wrote: post #31

I think this (and its attendant media coverage) is great because it brings religious irrationality and violence to the attention of the non hacker mainstream media. I understand why Muslims wouldn't want to draw Mohammed but insisting that non Muslims shouldn't draw Mohammed is insane. This would be like Buddhists insisting that since to them, meat eating is abhorrent, they ( or a "small minority" ) would feel offend…

Buddhists don't abhor meet eating. Draw all the Mohammeds you want. I think its a stupid/trivial issue to waste any time on.

Re: undefined

#44

Post by Uchikoma »

I pull everything from my blog I do not like - mostly hate speech in comments. Facebook should have the same right.

Funny note: Lots of people who accuse Facebook and others of cencsorships have no problem directorating their own blog.

Re: undefined

#46

Post by tome »

zaidf wrote: post #23
dcrawford wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very dangerous to equate "Everybody Draw Mohammed" with neo-nazi's and anti-semites. In the case of the neo-nazis, they consistently threaten to attack and kill innocent people. In the case of Islamic Fundamentalists, it is the ones who draw Mohammed who are being threatened. Facebook has every right to control the content on their site, and if this content were created out of irrational hatred, I would agree w…

But the context here is a group who are trying to manipulate their detractors by threat of force, and Facebook is allowing them to do it. There are groups who will threaten violence against neo-nazis. That does not justify allowing neo-nazi stuff because there are still millions offended by it. The same holds true here, IMO. Of course, I am very biased. But that also means that I am part of the OVERWHELMING group who…

You've got it the wrong way round. I think dcrawford's argument was that "Draw Mohammed day is non-violent thus it should be allowed to stay".

Re: undefined

#48

Post by peters »

plinkplonk wrote: post #31

I think this (and its attendant media coverage) is great because it brings religious irrationality and violence to the attention of the non hacker mainstream media. I understand why Muslims wouldn't want to draw Mohammed but insisting that non Muslims shouldn't draw Mohammed is insane. This would be like Buddhists insisting that since to them, meat eating is abhorrent, they ( or a "small minority" ) would feel offend…

plinkplonk 2--> Well you gave a pathetic example. I really feel sorry saying this but in response to your example, here is mine. You do not want your mom to get raped but why would stop other people to rape her? means you respect her right and she is the most important person in your life. I am a christian but I really feel sorry when I see comments like you have written. Why do we need to draw cartoon I mean cant we just think about other issues? why are you bothered about other religions?

Re: undefined

#49

Post by invisible »

endtime wrote: post #22
invisible wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying that they are not important groups so you must be confused. I think they're important and speak a ton about what should be allowed - but Facebook isn't distributed, there are a group of people at Facebook that could be harmed physically and do not want to take such a risk. That may be an excellent point for why Facebook (and similar services) need to be distributed to protect the Internet's free speec…

The reason my Facebook picture is a cartoon stick figure of Mohammed today is precisely because I refuse to be cowed by threats from barbarians. Hiding behind anonymous distributed networks isn't much better than hiding behind censorship. If free speech is only possible in anonymity, then you don't really have free speech.

I think you missed the point again. Sure - you choose to be responsible for your words. That does not mean the staff at Facebook need to be responsible as well. They are not the ones making the posts - anonymous or not!

That is why I'm saying: If you are on a distributed system where no select group of individuals are responsible for the system, you will have more free speech.

Re: undefined

#50

Post by mdh »

plinkplonk wrote: post #31

I think this (and its attendant media coverage) is great because it brings religious irrationality and violence to the attention of the non hacker mainstream media. I understand why Muslims wouldn't want to draw Mohammed but insisting that non Muslims shouldn't draw Mohammed is insane. This would be like Buddhists insisting that since to them, meat eating is abhorrent, they ( or a "small minority" ) would feel offend…

I'd distinguish between a right and an obligation.

If you have something worthwhile to say about Mohammed and his teachings (be it for or against) and a depiction of him will help, go ahead and draw him. If however, you're doing it just because you can, then you're doing nothing to help reduce inter-religion tension and, in fact, are exhibiting some of the same sort of dogmatic insistence that everyone conform to your views that you are railing against.

(NB speculation as i am not a muslim, i know only a small number of muslims personally and obviously haven't surveyed the world's muslim population for this). The subset of muslims who will threaten to kill you over this is VERY small and the proportion of that group who would actually ever attempt to do anything about it is miniscule. However, the number of muslims who would find your gesture unfriendly or just straight offensive is quite large. Net result: you've upset a large body of people with whom you have no real quarrel and the people whom you have a real beef with have 'proof' that the non-muslim world wants to undermine Islam.

In my opinion, if the picture on your website has no context (and a link to Facebook group isn't a proper context), then you haven't really helped matters and have probably hindered them.

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