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Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots

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Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should the same have been done when calculators made human calculators unemployed?

Depends how many human calculators lost their jobs. If it was a big part of society, then it may have been a good idea.

Why?

In the long-term disruptions and changes in jobs are part of the changes in the world. These people are unemployed temporarily and will lose some wages in the short-term but in the long term they will benefit from technological changes.

Taxing innovation is bad. If you want to achieve social welfare goals why not use NIT (negative income tax) or less preferably, UBI (universal basic income)?

Why should people using robots pay for it rather than everybody? After all, many people (in the long-term, everybody) indirectly benefit from the usage of robots. It's a net economic win.

Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots

#32
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Gates meant this more as a thought experiment, since he can't seriously think we can define a "robot." We need to find ways to cope with the speed of automation, by finding more revenue for putting displaced people back to work. How can we get the labor participation rate (62% and dropping) back to the pre-recession levels, as we fight both aging and automation.

> How can we get the labor participation rate (62% and dropping) back to the pre-recession levels, as we fight both aging and automation. You don't? You use automation to deliver consumer excess so people don't have to work anymore. The problem is not the automation and job loss; its who is capturing the benefits (ie corporations and shareholders). Slavery is wrong (communism). Not allowing the patenting or copyright…

> creators are going to create even if they're not permitted to reap outsized rewards from their creations.

Limiting the returns means limiting the risks people are willing to take.

Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots

#33
This is a really stupid idea, here's why (and this is not my opinion, this is how GAAP accounting works):

1. businesses already pay tax on their profits (if robots increase profits, that's increased taxes paid), and

2. owners of businesses pay income tax again (at a higher rate than workers, but deferred) on those same profits when they are extracted from the business (as higher salaries, dividends, capital gains, etc.)

3. if a business hires a worker and pays the worker, that money gets subtracted from the profit because it is a cost, a business expense so that subtracts from the tax the business pays and it subtracts from the income the owner of the business pays tax on.

4. instead, that labor money has taxes extracted from it when it is paid to the worker.

See? Taxing robots is nonsense.

So, you could make an argument that tax rates should go up or down, be progressive, flat, capital gains, etc. etc., but ... but ... what do you all think Congress does all the time anyway? This is the fiscal side of the Red State Blue State tug of war. What that tug of war does not need is more ill informed ideas.

(It's OK you don't know this, PP, I didn't know it before I learned it, but BG does not get a free pass...)

Bill Gates is pretty much retarded: kids, he didn't graduate from college and it shows; stay in school. I'll give $100 to anybody who can send me a link to something smart and non obvious that Bill Gates has ever said.

Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots

#34
post #2

He wanted a pay-to-view internet super-highway too. Only the consumers decided and favored the open WWW instead of his The Microsoft Network (as can be found preinstalled in Win95) - He had to rewrite his The Road Ahead 1995 book after 6 months, as WWW won. (first edition is hardcover, second edition is paperback)

Yes. MSN was intended to compete with Compuserve. Neither could compete with the www.

Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots

#35

This is a really stupid idea, here's why (and this is not my opinion, this is how GAAP accounting works): 1. businesses already pay tax on their profits (if robots increase profits, that's increased taxes paid), and 2. owners of businesses pay income tax again (at a higher rate than workers, but deferred) on those same profits when they are extracted from the business (as higher salaries, dividends, capital gains, et…

We've banned this account for trolling.

Please don't create many obscure throwaway accounts; we ban those. HN is a community. Anonymity is fine, but users should have some consistent identity that other users can relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be an entirely different forum.

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13666377 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots

#37

Seriously? We all know who Bill Gates is, but let's just examine this proposition as if someone else said it, maybe someone anonymous or who lacks prestige. We would tell them that sewing machine aren't taxed; farm equipment isn't taxed; street sweepers aren't taxed. We would tell them that productivity through technological innovation is an essential ingredient to our economy and that human needs are ever-evolving,…

> and new jobs will be created just like they always have been.

I highly doubt that new jobs will be created when the trend is to automate them.

And we still have the problem with the people unemployed by the automation, what we should do for them?

Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots

#38
post #30
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

new jobs will be created just like they always have been I think that hypothesis is what Bill Gates is questioning. The rate of change is far quicker than anything we've seen before, so using historical examples of how jobs have been created when technology puts people out of work as evidence of what will happen is grossly flawed. There's a possibility that we won't invent new jobs in time. We should think about what…

> We should think about what that means Free market economy doesn't think ahead, that's both it's strength and weakness. Government tries to think ahead. A taxation on robots might be a way to ease the road to the future _if_ the market doesn't invent jobs in the rate robots/automation in general takes them away. If you are a person with faith in the market the argument is easy, it's non-marketist to think ahead and…

One of the problems with HN is that it's sometimes hard to tell when people are being serious.

Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots

#39
post #35

This is a really stupid idea, here's why (and this is not my opinion, this is how GAAP accounting works): 1. businesses already pay tax on their profits (if robots increase profits, that's increased taxes paid), and 2. owners of businesses pay income tax again (at a higher rate than workers, but deferred) on those same profits when they are extracted from the business (as higher salaries, dividends, capital gains, et…

We've banned this account for trolling. Please don't create many obscure throwaway accounts; we ban those. HN is a community. Anonymity is fine, but users should have some consistent identity that other users can relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be an entirely different forum. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13666377 and marked i…

hogwash. people should not be allowed to call ideas smart if the ideas can't be labelled the opposite way too.

I make positive contributions, I add intellectual material. I just explained how accounting works, did you understand it before I explained it? Where is your contribution to that effect?

I believe contributions should stand on their own, I don't need a reputation to support my contributions, they are that good, but my editorial voice is always the same, I'm not hiding behind different points of view: I'm not trolling.

If you don't like my contributions, no skin of my nose, I won't make them, just say so, instead of being a prig.

Bill Gates actually is a very weak intellectual who coasts on a reputation he doesn't deserve. As such, by giving bad advice, he harms the economy.

Re: Bill Gates Wants to Tax Robots

#40
post #8
post #2

He wanted a pay-to-view internet super-highway too. Only the consumers decided and favored the open WWW instead of his The Microsoft Network (as can be found preinstalled in Win95) - He had to rewrite his The Road Ahead 1995 book after 6 months, as WWW won. (first edition is hardcover, second edition is paperback)

That piqued my curiosity - didn't know that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSN_Dial-up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3DudqwsRPw
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