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CockroachDB beta-20161013

jepsen.io

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Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#191

Post by _xhok »

jdcarter wrote: post #132
corndoge wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not too much trouble you might consider looking for a new job if management is that obtuse.

Everybody makes decisions using both emotion and reason. This is why successful products speak to both the heart and the mind of the customer. Said another way, this is why the marketing department is just as essential to a company's success as the engineering department. I've worked with my company's executive team for quite a while, and they're not obtuse. They are human, however. When I go to them and suggest we t…

That people are both emotional and logical is a non sequitur. The responsibility of picking a database includes trying explicitly to discount how ones feels about petty things like the name and rush to the technical discussion. That's part of what it means to do a good job picking a database.

All the best technical people I know would feel a visceral disgust at the thought of a product being discarded due to its name. Someone who was truly suited to attacking the problem of database selection would proactively make sure he wasn't letting nontechnical features into the discussion.

Whoever creates the successor to Linux should name it Holocaust OS or something just to mess with people, and laugh at those who due to its name thereby do their computing on an inferior system.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#192

Post by tehlike »

_xhok wrote: post #190
jdcarter wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely the name is holding them back. In my case it prevents me from championing the product within my company. Going to the executives and saying "we're going to put our most precious data into Cockroach" simply won't fly. Any discussion of features will be for naught; I know the CEO will make a "no" decision as soon as he hears the name. To any Cockroach Labs folks who might read this: please give me (and all o…

Why at your company are people who would evaluate a database by its name rather than its technical merits the ones who decide what database gets used?

"It must be a product from just another startup" is a very valid reason. At the end of the day, we only talk about mssql, mysql, postgres when it comes to rdbms.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#193

Post by _xhok »

tehlike wrote: post #192
_xhok wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why at your company are people who would evaluate a database by its name rather than its technical merits the ones who decide what database gets used?

"It must be a product from just another startup" is a very valid reason. At the end of the day, we only talk about mssql, mysql, postgres when it comes to rdbms.

Right, the implication being that nothing especially impressive about CockroachDB stands out, and so we're going to stick with proven options. That's a technical discussion!

Why are the people in charge of deciding what database to use the sort of people who would allow their disgust toward an animal whose name is shared by a database to block discussion of its technical features?

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#194

Post by SeeDave »

throwawasiudy wrote: post #118
WhitneyLand wrote: post #24

Could the name actually slow the project's momentum? I only recently read some cool things about CDB and wondered if I could have been subconsciously skipping articles about it for deep seeded reasons like http://bbc.com/future/story/20140918-the-reality-about-roach... Of course anything good may eventually rise to success on its merits, but in case I'm not the only one with a subconscious aversion maybe the info bel…

their name is the stupidest startup blunder I've ever seen. Enterprise won't go near it, seriously. I cannot tell a client I'm using a "cockroach" database, no fucking way. If we could go back and rename Windows Hitler would anyone be using it???

>If we could go back and rename Windows Hitler would anyone be using it???

Intensely hyperbolic but... you're not wrong. "Cockroach" is an awful name for a database and I have a hard time envisioning "seen-it-all" enterprise IT managers taking it seriously.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#195

Post by joatmon-snoo »

_xhok wrote: post #191
jdcarter wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody makes decisions using both emotion and reason. This is why successful products speak to both the heart and the mind of the customer. Said another way, this is why the marketing department is just as essential to a company's success as the engineering department. I've worked with my company's executive team for quite a while, and they're not obtuse. They are human, however. When I go to them and suggest we t…

That people are both emotional and logical is a non sequitur. The responsibility of picking a database includes trying explicitly to discount how ones feels about petty things like the name and rush to the technical discussion. That's part of what it means to do a good job picking a database. All the best technical people I know would feel a visceral disgust at the thought of a product being discarded due to its name…

People have a chance at a first impression once, and the name of your brand is a pretty fucking big first impression.

Cockroach was a terrible branding decision.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#197

Post by _xhok »

joatmon-snoo wrote: post #195
_xhok wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That people are both emotional and logical is a non sequitur. The responsibility of picking a database includes trying explicitly to discount how ones feels about petty things like the name and rush to the technical discussion. That's part of what it means to do a good job picking a database. All the best technical people I know would feel a visceral disgust at the thought of a product being discarded due to its name…

People have a chance at a first impression once, and the name of your brand is a pretty fucking big first impression. Cockroach was a terrible branding decision.

> Cockroach was a terrible branding decision.

This sentence is true, but whoever is in charge of picking a database for the engineering team shouldn't base his decision on such a criteria.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#198

Post by ej_campbell »

bfrog wrote: post #79
bdarnell wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Cockroach Labs CTO here) Jepsen is essentially a worst-case stress test for a consistent database: all the transactions conflict with each other. CockroachDB's optimistic concurrency control performs worse with this kind of workload than the pessimistic (lock-based) concurrency control seen in most non-distributed databases. But this high-contention scenario is not the norm for most databases. Most transactions don'…

Couldn't this be a problem for application authors and a potential source of DoS activities? It seems this should be a big red warning flag somewhere.

It'd only be a DOS vector, if the rest of the db bogged down during this type of contention.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#199

Post by justicezyx »

p4lindromica wrote: post #160
justicezyx wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People care about CDB raises one of the most prominent and easiest fixable problem. I see 0 problem of this.

Just like you think you can fix my shed by painting it yellow, right?

What do you mean? I think the feedback is that the name has a negative impact. Very few comments claim that they know a better name.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#200

Post by dang »

elcct wrote: post #147
WhitneyLand wrote: post #24

Could the name actually slow the project's momentum? I only recently read some cool things about CDB and wondered if I could have been subconsciously skipping articles about it for deep seeded reasons like http://bbc.com/future/story/20140918-the-reality-about-roach... Of course anything good may eventually rise to success on its merits, but in case I'm not the only one with a subconscious aversion maybe the info bel…

At least it is not GrabherbythepussyDB ;)

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