Live data from Hacker News

Launch HN: FloydHub (YC W17) – Heroku for Deep Learning

news.ycombinator.com

51–60 of 89 posts

Re: Launch HN: FloydHub (YC W17) – Heroku for Deep Learning

#51
Sidenote: We always say the hardest things in software is cache invalidation and naming things, but I also found the problem to be dependency tracking and reproducibility. It's just so hard to get started with ANY non trivial software project and your os/tools/libs expire way before you finish the projects. Software should be cheap and repeatable, but for some reason it takes active maintenance and is therefore very expensive. If a superhuman intelligence looked at us from afar, we would probably look like how ants look to us: Millions of small workers with very inefficient probabilistic behavior. Sure, we get the job done, but very slowly with a lot of waste. That said, ants lived for ever, so maybe it is the right thing to do ;)

Either way, I often find myself choosing backward compatibility and stability over innovation and polish and choose to learn vim and bash instead of replacing the silver bullet every year.

Shameless plug, I am working on a platform similar to FloydHub, but for frontend engineers [0]. The problem is a real one.

[0] https://pipez.io

Re: Launch HN: FloydHub (YC W17) – Heroku for Deep Learning

#52
post #47
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you're talking about AzureML Studio. It's a pretty neat UI-centric tool for building machine learning workflows! It's great if you're starting out with ML, but offers little in terms of customizability. For example, it only supports R and Python, has no GPUs, no CLI, no container support for managing reproducible environments, etc. I think these are kind of deal breakers for doing deep learning :) FWIW, I wo…

I like the ease of use to get up and running with Floydhub. What internal tools you had to solve this at Microsoft? Were they any good? I heard Facebook has their own FBLearner Flow internally for managing their ML workflows and it's pretty neat.

I’ve heard FBLearner Flow is pretty cool for running/managing/sharing ML pipelines inside Facebook. Never seen or used it myself, but Microsoft had a similar internal tool called AEther that was very cool too. We’ve definitely taken inspiration from AEther in building Floyd.

Here’s an anecdotal story about how awesome AEther was (been a long time, so a little fuzzy on details): In 2011, Harry Shum was the VP of the Bing division at Microsoft. It was the early days of Bing (~10% market share, ~$2bn annual loss, etc.) - we had good talent, but were lagging behind Google in tech. In one of our all-hands meetings, Harry jokingly announced that if we beat Google in our core relevance metric (called NDCG), he’d take the entire Bing team, approx. 300 people strong, for a fully paid trip to Las Vegas.

Sure enough, a year later, Bing did beat Google in our core relevance metric (http://www.insideris.com/microsoft-bing-beats-google-in-the-...) and all 300 of us went to Vegas for a weekend as promised. (Spoiler: Google did eventually beat Bing back later)

The success and rapid acceleration in relevance gains was attributed in large parts to the introduction of a new tool called AEther (in addition to improving ML tech and hiring top talent). AEther was an experimentation platform for building and running data workflows. It allowed data scientists to build complex workflows and experiment in a massively parallel fashion, while abstracting away all the engineering concerns. I used it a ton on a daily basis and loved it. The AEther team claimed that it increased the experimentation productivity of researchers and engineers by almost 100X. Even now, when I ask ex-Bing data scientists working at other companies about what they miss the most from their time at Microsoft, AEther is almost always in the top 3 answers.

Having seen how awesome AEther was from the inside, one of our goals is to bring its benefits to the rest of the world as well. However, having talked to a few individual data scientists and researchers over the last month, their preference seems to be CLI over GUI (while bigger companies like it much better). May be its one of those things you have to get used to, or may be our implementation is clunky. So we’re making the GUI an enterprise only feature for now, while we continue to help individual data scientists through our CLI.

Re: Launch HN: FloydHub (YC W17) – Heroku for Deep Learning

#53
post #5

Hi! I'm Naren, the other co-founder of FloydHub. I'll be happy to answer any questions and really appreciate any feedback you can provide. Thanks!

Features page says "Develop interactively on the cloud using Jupyter Notebook. Your code, results and outputs are always preserved."

But http://docs.floydhub.com/guides/jupyter/ says "IMPORTANT: Floyd does not save your Jupyter notebooks after you stop the floyd job. So you need to download any relevant notebooks by selecting File > Download As menu from the Jupyter notebook."

Which is it?

Re: Launch HN: FloydHub (YC W17) – Heroku for Deep Learning

#54
post #46

So I guess we're competitors in a sense, but congrats nonetheless! We hope to launch at least a private beta of NeuralObjects like "Real Soon Now"™. It'll be interesting to see where we decide to go down different paths, or how we take different approaches to things.

Thanks for the comment! There's lots of challenges to be solved in this space, and I'm sure there's room for all of us. Excited to see what you guys are up to. I will look forward to your beta release "real soon" :)

What was it Steve Blank said? "Startups don't die from competition with other startups, they die because they built a product nobody wants" (or something like that).

As you say, there's plenty of room out there. And we're all competing with Amazon, Google, Microsoft, etc. anyway. :-)

Re: Launch HN: FloydHub (YC W17) – Heroku for Deep Learning

#55
post #5

Hi! I'm Naren, the other co-founder of FloydHub. I'll be happy to answer any questions and really appreciate any feedback you can provide. Thanks!

Features page says "Develop interactively on the cloud using Jupyter Notebook. Your code, results and outputs are always preserved." But http://docs.floydhub.com/guides/jupyter/ says "IMPORTANT: Floyd does not save your Jupyter notebooks after you stop the floyd job. So you need to download any relevant notebooks by selecting File > Download As menu from the Jupyter notebook." Which is it?

The warning in the documentation page is no longer valid. We DO save the notebook files and keep them after the session is terminated. They will be part of the run output.

The docs have been updated to reflect this. Thanks for pointing this out.

Re: Launch HN: FloydHub (YC W17) – Heroku for Deep Learning

#56
post #48
post #38

It seems like everyone and their dog wants to solve this problem; why is it going to be you?

YC Magic?

YC definitely helps in giving us a lot of credibility when talking to customers especially enterprises. We have also been learning a ton about sales during the last couple of months - for a couple of engineer / data scientist it has been a humbling experience. Other than that there is not really any magic here!

Re: Launch HN: FloydHub (YC W17) – Heroku for Deep Learning

#57
post #51

Sidenote: We always say the hardest things in software is cache invalidation and naming things, but I also found the problem to be dependency tracking and reproducibility. It's just so hard to get started with ANY non trivial software project and your os/tools/libs expire way before you finish the projects. Software should be cheap and repeatable, but for some reason it takes active maintenance and is therefore very…

I can definitely resonate with this. Deep learning is in such an early stage, the frameworks and tooling are still maturing and evolving rapidly. This makes it really hard to reproduce other's work. Maybe there will be one winner in the frameworks war (Tensorflow?) and things will be better.

Pipez sounds really useful, good luck!

Re: Launch HN: FloydHub (YC W17) – Heroku for Deep Learning

#58
This sounds interesting and useful - I hope you guys make it!

A couple of years ago I worked for a local cloud server provider, as a backend developer. Some of the work I did moved the company into deploying VPS instances using OpenStack. Our backend code was mainly PHP-based; so we used OpenCloud for the purpose - extending it where needed (when we started it didn't support all we needed; I extended things in such a way so that when we did need to upgrade OpenCloud, it would gracefully work without breaking anything - it was a gamble that I didn't know if it would really work - just had a hunch - 9 months in we upgraded, and it all worked perfectly).

Anyhow - at that time, seeing what we had available for servers and such (we were competing somewhat with DO) - I suggested we add support for GPU instances and maybe pivot toward an ML offering of some sort. Not gut our bread-n-butter, but offer up some kind of ML package for those that needed or wanted it.

I was shot down by management as it being too "pie in the sky" - not even demand or something like that. To be honest, I'm not even sure they understood what I was trying to convey, so maybe part of the problem was mine as well.

The company was eventually sold and I moved on, but seeing now how these kinds of services are in demand, I sometimes wonder on what "could've been". Ever since taking my first MOOC in ML (Ng's ML Class in 2011) - I've tried to interest employers in applying what (little) I know on the subject. I'm not an expert, but I'd love to apply my learning (on top of the 25+ years of software dev experience I already have). Today, I'm in the middle of the Udacity Nanodegree MOOC - I doubt much of that will transfer for my current employer, but maybe the general knowledge I'm getting of TensorFlow and Keras, among other bits, might help in the future.

I think, though, that FloydHub might be fun to play around with for future personal ML/DL projects as time goes on; I look forward to trying it out someday soon!

Re: Launch HN: FloydHub (YC W17) – Heroku for Deep Learning

#60
You guys seem to make setting up Deep Learning infrastructure easy for data scientists which is awesome! What about situations where the end user/business isn't sure exactly how to use Deep Learning (which algorithm, how to partition the data into training and result sets, stability of results etc.) for the problem/data set at hand? Would it be possible to use FloydHub as a marketplace of sorts where I could hire a deep learning enthusiast to appropriately construct the experiment for me and then explain the results?
Post reply on HN