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CockroachDB beta-20161013

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Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#111

Post by corndoge »

jdcarter wrote: post #101
WhitneyLand wrote: post #24

Could the name actually slow the project's momentum? I only recently read some cool things about CDB and wondered if I could have been subconsciously skipping articles about it for deep seeded reasons like http://bbc.com/future/story/20140918-the-reality-about-roach... Of course anything good may eventually rise to success on its merits, but in case I'm not the only one with a subconscious aversion maybe the info bel…

Absolutely the name is holding them back. In my case it prevents me from championing the product within my company. Going to the executives and saying "we're going to put our most precious data into Cockroach" simply won't fly. Any discussion of features will be for naught; I know the CEO will make a "no" decision as soon as he hears the name. To any Cockroach Labs folks who might read this: please give me (and all o…

If it's not too much trouble you might consider looking for a new job if management is that obtuse.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#112

Post by justicezyx »

irfansharif wrote: post #69

I'm disappointed with the commentary here, I for one would think the discussions around building a distributed system with the consistency guarantees claimed here would be far more interesting than the name of said system.

People care about CDB raises one of the most prominent and easiest fixable problem. I see 0 problem of this.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#113

Post by emptythought »

corndoge wrote: post #111
jdcarter wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely the name is holding them back. In my case it prevents me from championing the product within my company. Going to the executives and saying "we're going to put our most precious data into Cockroach" simply won't fly. Any discussion of features will be for naught; I know the CEO will make a "no" decision as soon as he hears the name. To any Cockroach Labs folks who might read this: please give me (and all o…

If it's not too much trouble you might consider looking for a new job if management is that obtuse.

Except this is going to be the common response of management at basically any large, or older company. Not everyone here works at startups, and this isn't something that's easy to just immediately change.

This is an issue with a lot of weird or jokey project names, honestly.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#114

Post by hinkley »

stickfigure wrote: post #109
hinkley wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong. Whoever downvoted you is pushing an agenda and I'm not happy about it. Reads per second is ultimately a measure of how many operations can be retired per second, not how long the operation takes. Anyone who has spent fifteen minutes learning about capacity planning should know that. 5 reads per second doesn't mean each read takes 200ms. It might mean 1 second per read spread across 5 threads of exec…

The parent poster (and many others in this thread) are assuming that performance under this deliberately pathological test is reflective of performance in the real world. Optimistic locking systems inherently perform poorly under contention. But they also perform better than pessimistic concurrency systems overall because in the real world we design applications to avoid contention. As an example, the Google App Engi…

So the benchmark is only informative from the standpoint of determining which records should be split to avoid concurrent writes.

For instance you wouldn't expect a single user to make 5 comments or upvotes per second so storing data about recent activity with the user isn't a bottleneck that you need to design for. Storing data about responses with an item might also be okay as long as you don't plan to be HN or Reddit (Github, for example, would be just fine). But if you want to track activity globally (eg, managing the watch list notifications in github), you will need to design around that number.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#115

Post by qaq »

stickfigure wrote: post #109
hinkley wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong. Whoever downvoted you is pushing an agenda and I'm not happy about it. Reads per second is ultimately a measure of how many operations can be retired per second, not how long the operation takes. Anyone who has spent fifteen minutes learning about capacity planning should know that. 5 reads per second doesn't mean each read takes 200ms. It might mean 1 second per read spread across 5 threads of exec…

The parent poster (and many others in this thread) are assuming that performance under this deliberately pathological test is reflective of performance in the real world. Optimistic locking systems inherently perform poorly under contention. But they also perform better than pessimistic concurrency systems overall because in the real world we design applications to avoid contention. As an example, the Google App Engi…

Regardless of locking strategy that throughput is abysmal. None would complain about high latency.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#116

Post by irfansharif »

influx wrote: post #105
WhitneyLand wrote: post #24

Could the name actually slow the project's momentum? I only recently read some cool things about CDB and wondered if I could have been subconsciously skipping articles about it for deep seeded reasons like http://bbc.com/future/story/20140918-the-reality-about-roach... Of course anything good may eventually rise to success on its merits, but in case I'm not the only one with a subconscious aversion maybe the info bel…

It's a terrible name, it also has the property that stupidly configured web filters could filter it due to string matching the first part of the word. It also makes your employees look stupid when they tell their landlords, bank accounts, dates that they work at Cockroach Labs. Good luck explaining that you aren't an exterminator.

what's wrong with being an exterminator?

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#117

Post by stickfigure »

hinkley wrote: post #114
stickfigure wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent poster (and many others in this thread) are assuming that performance under this deliberately pathological test is reflective of performance in the real world. Optimistic locking systems inherently perform poorly under contention. But they also perform better than pessimistic concurrency systems overall because in the real world we design applications to avoid contention. As an example, the Google App Engi…

So the benchmark is only informative from the standpoint of determining which records should be split to avoid concurrent writes. For instance you wouldn't expect a single user to make 5 comments or upvotes per second so storing data about recent activity with the user isn't a bottleneck that you need to design for. Storing data about responses with an item might also be okay as long as you don't plan to be HN or Red…

Aphyr's test is not a benchmark. It is a test of database correctness under a carefully constructed set of pathological circumstances. It cannot be used to infer real-world performance behavior.

Yes, the general advice for users of the GAE datastore is to build Entity Groups around the data for a single user. That isn't absolute though, and it doesn't cause problems for watch lists; the Watch can be part of the User's EG rather than the Issue's EG. Or it can be its own EG. In practice this doesn't require as much consideration as you probably imagine.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#118

Post by throwawasiudy »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #24

Could the name actually slow the project's momentum? I only recently read some cool things about CDB and wondered if I could have been subconsciously skipping articles about it for deep seeded reasons like http://bbc.com/future/story/20140918-the-reality-about-roach... Of course anything good may eventually rise to success on its merits, but in case I'm not the only one with a subconscious aversion maybe the info bel…

their name is the stupidest startup blunder I've ever seen. Enterprise won't go near it, seriously. I cannot tell a client I'm using a "cockroach" database, no fucking way.

If we could go back and rename Windows Hitler would anyone be using it???

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#119

Post by Fiahil »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #24

Could the name actually slow the project's momentum? I only recently read some cool things about CDB and wondered if I could have been subconsciously skipping articles about it for deep seeded reasons like http://bbc.com/future/story/20140918-the-reality-about-roach... Of course anything good may eventually rise to success on its merits, but in case I'm not the only one with a subconscious aversion maybe the info bel…

As a former SC2 Zerg player, I found the name a bit funny, nothing more.

A really bad name, would be, for example, to try calling a news agency "BuzzFeed News".

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