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What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

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Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#341

Post by graeme »

acejam wrote: post #270
graeme wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

--> The current best practice for border crossings --- really anywhere in the world --- is simply not to carry anything you're unwilling to unlock for Customs. How do password managers play into this? I'm likely going to be traveling to the US on business. I'll be bringing a travel phone rather than a normal phone (This is my standard travel practice for any country). I could do the same with a computer. I don't mind…

If your password manager doesn't encrypt it's own files on disk, then you're using the wrong password manager.

I'm operating on the assumption they'll ask for the password to that too. That's where the social media passwords are.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#342

Post by M_Grey »

PeterisP wrote: post #322
M_Grey wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solution: No Facebook (which is a solution to so many other problems too), partition and hide what you don't want browsed by some inept CBP agent, and then play your part in their security theatre. It might even be nice if someone could make some programs that offer false home screens for various devices that only open when a given password is input... your CBP "clean slate". Don't say, "I don't have x,y,z..." accoun…

"Have your real identity online not be publically linked to your real identity" is actually not so simple, as it requires cooperation of everyone you know. Would your mom, spouse or boss have your "account that you never use" in their social network contacts or your real online identity? All kinds of advertising companies and spammers have such information obtained from people who share their contact list with some f…

It's not about keeping secrets at that level, and frankly I'm a lot less sure about my ability to evade advertisers than the CBP. Advertisers are hooked into everything, as therefore so are aggregators. That said, the aggregators and advertisers can be blocked, ignored, and spoofed. Even if you don't, they don't get physical access to your devices, they don't get to clone your HDD and keep a copy!

By contrast, the CBP doesn't have the profit motive or apparatus to keep a "file" on each of us and match that file on the fly with our testimony at the border. You don't need to fool them in some grand way, just the digital equivalent of a false bottom with a safe hidden underneath. Beyond that, share some basic crap and explain you're not that into social media, but share what you have.

They're not going to be shocked that some people have little presence, what's going to get them interested is refusing to unlock something or conveniently forgetting passwords.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#343

Post by rthomas6 »

alainv wrote: post #321
dave_sullivan wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. Starting with "Well," suggests it somehow negates my point though. I think "Also" would be more appropriate, which kind of acknowledges the problems in other countries I cited while also pointing out very real weaknesses in America's justice system. This might seem pedantic, but the common reply I see to "this country does bad stuff" reduces to "well this country does bad stuff too!" It's not a product…

But... your previous post specifically says "China is willing to kidnap people out of Thailand" and goes on to say "I really hope the U.S. never comes close to this". Can you explain how exactly the U.S. has yet to "come close to" your list? Your post created the very "us vs them" separation you now claim to disagree with. The child post was fairly clearly just answering that statement And while we're talking deflect…

I think the implication is that he sees the things the US currently does as less bad than his own list. I'm not weighing in on the validity of his assessment, but I'm pretty sure that's what he meant.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#344

Post by rodgerd »

tptacek wrote: post #210
graeme wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

--> The current best practice for border crossings --- really anywhere in the world --- is simply not to carry anything you're unwilling to unlock for Customs. How do password managers play into this? I'm likely going to be traveling to the US on business. I'll be bringing a travel phone rather than a normal phone (This is my standard travel practice for any country). I could do the same with a computer. I don't mind…

If you're not a citizen, I think this is probably pretty simple: don't carry anything across the border that you would be uncomfortable being forced to unlock. There's nothing you can encrypt with a passphrase that is protected from a border search, unless you're comfortable being sent back home, losing your computer hardware, and not being allowed back to the US at least until the next Presidential administration, p…

> not being allowed back to the US

And potentially any other country that has the "have you been denied access to any country for any reason" rider on its immigration questionaires.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#345

Post by abandonliberty »

ekiru wrote: post #84
biscuitsandbbq wrote: post #38

This happened to me crossing into Canada and to be honest I really wasn't expecting it. I had tons of very private pictures and messages on there stretching back years. I really didn't want to turn over my password so that 3 border agents could look through all that stuff in some back room, but at the same time I knew there wasn't anything illegal on there. Anyway, I was with my partner and didn't want to ruin her va…

Recognizing when people are lying is an important part of CBP's job. They're trained specifically to do it. It's unlikely that you're better at lying than they are at noticing that you're lie. Lying to them will end poorly.

They're not actually very good at this. Keep your responses to the shortest simplest truth. Your goal is to be boring and unremarkable as everyone else.

Anything more frustrates and angers them.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#346

Post by [deleted] »

whatever_dude wrote: post #296
pc86 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entering Brazil as a US citizen was an interesting experience. Long pseudo-interrogation, fingerprinting, the whole nine yards. It wasn't until later I learned they basically just decided to do to all US citizens what the US was doing to Brazilians (and certainly others).

Brazil has a weird policy (the "reciprocity" law) that makes them apply to visitors from some countries whatever that country applies to visitors from Brazil. In theory that only applies to what kind of visas are necessary, but often they do so in terms of immigration/customs policy too. So yeah, a while ago the US started requiring electronic fingerprints from Brazilian visitors (and everyone else I think?) so that'…

[deleted]

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#348

Post by drusepth »

Raphmedia wrote: post #339
drusepth wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a not-quite-as-bad grilling at the UK CBP, where they required me to log into my banking apps and show them my accounts & balances, as well as transaction histories to determine whether I was currently working remotely (and, therefore, would continue "illegally" working remotely while in the country).

Wait. So if I am a tourist in, let's say, the USA and I keep working remotely on Canadian projects and getting paid in Canadian dollars, do I need a work visa?

Depends on the country. The UK's particularly bad (in my experience and from what I've heard from the digital nomad community) in that they don't like you working remotely at all while visiting, especially if you're staying for any significant amount of time (I'm here for 3 months).

The general rule is "if you make money while in a country, you need a work visa while in that country", but obviously that may be a bit outdated and not take into account remote positions. Many countries can/will fine, blacklist, and deport you if they find out you worked while within the country without a work visa; and it's _those_ people that you need to be able to convince "I'm not taking your jobs away!" to.

I'm a US citizen so I haven't looked into it from your POV, but I do know that a trip to Canada, for example, allows working remotely as long as:

* you work for an American company with no Canadian offices or branches[1],

* you are paid in American dollars, and

* that payment is deposited into an American bank account.

Again, depends on the country you're visiting (and possibly the country you're a resident of), so I'd double check before working on a trip just to be safe.

[1] If your company has branches where you're going, the safest bet is to get them to help arrange the trip. A have a family member that travels a lot on business and has been denied entry to countries while on business trips specifically to train the local branch, because even then it's a delicate situation.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#349

Post by somethingsimple »

whatever_dude wrote: post #296
pc86 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entering Brazil as a US citizen was an interesting experience. Long pseudo-interrogation, fingerprinting, the whole nine yards. It wasn't until later I learned they basically just decided to do to all US citizens what the US was doing to Brazilians (and certainly others).

Brazil has a weird policy (the "reciprocity" law) that makes them apply to visitors from some countries whatever that country applies to visitors from Brazil. In theory that only applies to what kind of visas are necessary, but often they do so in terms of immigration/customs policy too. So yeah, a while ago the US started requiring electronic fingerprints from Brazilian visitors (and everyone else I think?) so that'…

I don't think that's weird, I think it's pretty awesome. But I'm biased, since I'm Brazilian :)

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#350

Post by plandis »

lap42 wrote: post #298
coldtea wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China is willing to kidnap people out of Thailand [1]; people being arrested over political tweets [2]; Russia can poison people [3], shoot them [4], or have them accused of fake crimes[5]. I really hope the U.S. never comes close to this Well, the US can drone-kill people (including bystanders irrelevant to the primary non-tried target), abduct them from all over the world and transport them with no trial to Guant…

Obama, the president that estimulated racial fights, did not have too much respect for the law, for police officers, etc... So under Trump, a president that respects AND shows repect for policemen, expect stupid policemen having a much harder time than before.

How exactly did Obama stimulate racial fights?
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