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What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

arstechnica.com

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Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#281

Post by dave_sullivan »

coldtea wrote: post #213
dave_sullivan wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. Asia and Eastern Europe are off the list for me too. China is willing to kidnap people out of Thailand [1]; people being arrested over political tweets [2]; Russia can poison people [3], shoot them [4], or have them accused of fake crimes[5]. I really hope the U.S. never comes close to this and hope I see this trend reversed in my lifetime. But people should be aware that it can happen in a modern s…

> China is willing to kidnap people out of Thailand [1]; people being arrested over political tweets [2]; Russia can poison people [3], shoot them [4], or have them accused of fake crimes[5]. I really hope the U.S. never comes close to this Well, the US can drone-kill people (including bystanders irrelevant to the primary non-tried target), abduct them from all over the world and transport them with no trial to Guant…

Totally agree.

Starting with "Well," suggests it somehow negates my point though.

I think "Also" would be more appropriate, which kind of acknowledges the problems in other countries I cited while also pointing out very real weaknesses in America's justice system.

This might seem pedantic, but the common reply I see to "this country does bad stuff" reduces to "well this country does bad stuff too!" It's not a productive argument because it tries to deflect attention and normalize the actions in question. Instead, we should be focusing on how to address all of these issues, because they definitely exist.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#282

Post by 19128391 »

MrDosu wrote: post #235
adekok wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or, to simply stop traveling to countries that refuse to play nice with the rights of foreigners. s/foreigners/citizens/ i.e. everyone . I'm a Canadian Citizen. When I enter Canada from abroad, they claim the same rights as the US CBP. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/alain-philippon-cb...

As a German tourist the most annoying thing getting into Canada is to wait in line while all these other nationalities get questioned extensively before being waved through in 20secs. Wear your bright colored gore tex jackets guys!

Sorry if I'm spoiling a joke here, but does a Berghaus gore tex jacket really give you credibility at the border?

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#283

Post by MichaelGG »

dave_sullivan wrote: post #186
MichaelGG wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't to catch terrorism. Though they'll probably get a few idiot "extremists", this will mostly stop people coming in under false pretenses. It's bizarre how people don't think ahead to their border crossing and are willing to admit they are going to live with their SO, or work as a nanny -- while under a tourism visa. It'll be very effective at this. Most people aren't going to establish a plausible social med…

> "Real" spies and terrorists and whatever can obviously afford to setup enough cover. > It's bizarre how people don't think ahead to their border crossing and are willing to admit they are going to live with their SO, or work as a nanny -- while under a tourism visa. So we're not catching "real" spies and terrorists; we're catching nannies trying to get paid under the table; do you think maybe we've got bigger fish…

You're gaining a more efficient CBP, enforcing visa rules and avoiding overstays like they do now, just with higher accuracy. Now if you want to argue that visa classes are silly and the US should just let anyone come in for whatever, fine, but that's a totally different argument.

And yes, it's possible that this isn't worth the gains to CBP. But the US is pretty powerful and can force quite a bit of crap on people without getting too hurt. If it stops, it'll most likely be from efforts from e.g. Facebook lobbying against it.

Business travelers have little choice. A lot of migrants have no choice (the benefits of US residency far outweigh the inconvenience for most people) -- we can test this out by looking at how many Mexicans or other Latam folks stay in the US vs, say, Canada over the next few years (confounding that is Canada removing visa requirements for Mexicans). Tourism might be hit a bit, but I'm unconvinced this is a big enough deal for people to rethink their entire vacation plans.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#284

Post by MichaelGG »

jacquesm wrote: post #198
knz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living with your SO under a tourism visa isn't a crime as long as you leave before your visa expires... And is it the role of CPB to prevent under the table employment? Surely there are better ways to address that issue if it's a concern. Building walls and inspecting social media seems like a political smoke screen for avoiding more effective enforcement measures - requiring farmers/factories/roofing companies to pr…

As if it is only illegals that are being paid under the table.

It's not about being _paid_ under the table, it's about entering the country with intent to violate your entry conditions (working without a visa). CBP doesn't have much to say about legal workers not, say, filing taxes.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#285

Post by jjawssd »

tornadoboy55 wrote: post #75
interfixus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happily, to counterbalance that, US jurisdiction is often assumed to cover the farthest reaches of the planet.

That's patently false. Good luck enforcing US business law in Norway.

RIAA/MPAA believe otherwise

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#286

Post by jjawssd »

WildUtah wrote: post #118
bflesch wrote: post #81

In a world where thousands of people annually travel to some "freedom fighter" camps in order to get combat training, I very much agree that it is necessary to intensively screen travelers who return to their country of origin once they fit a certain heuristic. As one single returnee who is not caught might actually cause dozens or hundreds of citizen deaths, there shouldn't be a screening exception for smartphones o…

Actual trained terrorists with experience at an organized training camp aren't going to have any actionable material on a laptop or cell phone. You have to be able to identify the dangerous citizens by other means.

False. It happens more often than you believe.

https://www.ctc.usma.edu/posts/how-terrorists-use-encryption

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#288

Post by iak8god »

athenot wrote: post #245

Have there been any incidences of people who signed up for CBP's Global Entry program having trouble? Many of the complaints here are a (justified) fear that privacy invasion occurs as a side-effect of a clumsy and poorly thought-out attempt to prevent something illegal[1]. So if I go ahead and sign up for the background check + interiew to let them see I don't have ill intentions, would this reduce the likelyhood of…

> Have there been any incidences of people who signed up for CBP's Global Entry program having trouble?

Yes. The ArsTechnica article we're discussing here fails to mention it, but Sidd Bikkannavar is enrolled in Global Entry:

"Seemingly, Bikkannavar’s reentry into the country should not have raised any flags. Not only is he a natural-born US citizen, but he’s also enrolled in Global Entry — a program through CBP that allows individuals who have undergone background checks to have expedited entry into the country. He hasn’t visited the countries listed in the immigration ban and he has worked at JPL — a major center at a US federal agency — for 10 years." - http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/12/14583124/nasa-sidd-bikkann...

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#289

Post by gkya »

venomsnake wrote: post #269

We barely stopped the last mostly male refugee wave at Vienna. For you islam may be just a religion but for EE it is dervishme, being second tier humans and the reason the renesaince in Eastern europe started 500 years later. If the refugees were vulnerable it is possible. But the majority of them are male. And some of them are draft doggers. If the Ukrainians start to run from Russia the reception will quite differe…

> If the Ukrainians start to run from Russia the reception will quite different - case in point - the armenias during the genocide.

The whole western world sat and watched two decades of persecution that Armenians suffered which ended up becoming a genocide, even Russia who declared herself the protector of Ottoman Orthodox christians didn't move a finger. And those who managed to flee the country were not always welcome. See e.g. the autobiographical movie Mayrig.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#290

Post by mamon »

shitgoose wrote: post #280
venomsnake wrote: post #269

We barely stopped the last mostly male refugee wave at Vienna. For you islam may be just a religion but for EE it is dervishme, being second tier humans and the reason the renesaince in Eastern europe started 500 years later. If the refugees were vulnerable it is possible. But the majority of them are male. And some of them are draft doggers. If the Ukrainians start to run from Russia the reception will quite differe…

not to nitpick, but so far Ukrainians have been running from Ukraine to Russia - 2.6 mil since 2014 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Russia )

Are you sure those are actual Ukrainians, and not just ethnical Russians with Ukrainian citizenship? Eastern Ukraine has a huge Russian minority.
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