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What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

arstechnica.com

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Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#241

Post by deong »

graeme wrote: post #224
tptacek wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're not a citizen, I think this is probably pretty simple: don't carry anything across the border that you would be uncomfortable being forced to unlock. There's nothing you can encrypt with a passphrase that is protected from a border search, unless you're comfortable being sent back home, losing your computer hardware, and not being allowed back to the US at least until the next Presidential administration, p…

Right. Since they may ask for social media passwords, would that imply making a travel profile for my travel devices that has password access to things like Facebook and a subset of sites I'd need, but not necessarily all 400+ of my logins? I don't care if they login to my Facebook (well, I think I don't). I just don't want to have them have everything , because then I'd have to change it all. To be very clear, not p…

It doesn't matter what you have in your password manager. If you're not a US citizen, they can demand your facebook access. If you don't have it, can't unencrypt it, or just feel like telling them to fuck off doesn't matter. You have no legal right to enter the country except with their permission, and they may well tell the person who didn't put their facebook passwords in the password manager to get back on a plane and go home.

US citizens have it better in at least that one regard. They can't keep me from entering the country. They can confiscate my laptop, but if I don't want to give them facebook access, there's not much they can do to stop me. They can of course add me to some list that makes my life miserable every time I fly, but there's no constitutional provision that allows preventing a citizen from entering the country.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#242

Post by tptacek »

graeme wrote: post #193
Rarebox wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you just bring a device with freshly installed Windows / OSX, and clone the whole disk image over the internet once you're inside U.S. ?

Well, yes. But as tptacek said: "But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices confiscated, and then put on a flight out of the country." I'm not a US citizen. I don't have anything in particular I care about…

I'm traveling overseas this summer, and I don't plan on having my 1Password database handy when I reenter the country.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#243

Post by sebastianavina »

tptacek wrote: post #3

Worth remembering: US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware (perhaps having it returned 6 months later). But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices con…

what happen if you dont own a facebook account?

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#244

Post by mikeash »

cr0sh wrote: post #215
mikeash wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's ridiculous about them? We've seen plenty of home-grown terrorism. I'm not sure if searching social media profiles would ever have prevented an attack in the US, for example, whereas internal checkpoints and random house searches certainly could have.

> whereas internal checkpoints and random house searches certainly could have. I upvoted your original comment because I am pretty sure it was meant as sarcasm. I certainly hope I am still correct on that assessment. There was a time, not long ago, certainly within my memory and the memories of many others - when we as a country (the USA as well as other countries) looked down upon such activities as being wholly un-…

You are correct. The whole comment was intended as a reductio ad absurdum. I understand that sarcasm is tough to detect, though, so I can see why you might be worried!

I am serious that internal checkpoints and random house searches could have prevented past terrorist attacks, and would probably prevent future ones. I don't, however, think it's a worthwhile tradeoff, not even close.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#245

Post by athenot »

Have there been any incidences of people who signed up for CBP's Global Entry program having trouble?

Many of the complaints here are a (justified) fear that privacy invasion occurs as a side-effect of a clumsy and poorly thought-out attempt to prevent something illegal[1]. So if I go ahead and sign up for the background check + interiew to let them see I don't have ill intentions, would this reduce the likelyhood of collateral privacy invasion when actually crossing the border?

I've been considering this for convenience reasons but am curious if it might help in this instance.

Note:

[1]: There is also the issue of restricting freedom and declaring people "illegal" when that runs against the spirit of this country, but I'm not focusing on that here.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#246

Post by iak8god »

knz wrote: post #91
MichaelGG wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't to catch terrorism. Though they'll probably get a few idiot "extremists", this will mostly stop people coming in under false pretenses. It's bizarre how people don't think ahead to their border crossing and are willing to admit they are going to live with their SO, or work as a nanny -- while under a tourism visa. It'll be very effective at this. Most people aren't going to establish a plausible social med…

Living with your SO under a tourism visa isn't a crime as long as you leave before your visa expires... And is it the role of CPB to prevent under the table employment? Surely there are better ways to address that issue if it's a concern. Building walls and inspecting social media seems like a political smoke screen for avoiding more effective enforcement measures - requiring farmers/factories/roofing companies to pr…

> Living with your SO under a tourism visa isn't a crime as long as you leave before your visa expires...

No, but it is left entirely up to the agent interviewing you for entry to decide whether he thinks you're likely to leave later when your visa is expiring.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#247

Post by turc1656 »

This practice should be banned on the premise that any digital data that could enter the country physically on that device could just as easily cross the border and enter on any internet connection. Searching the device does nothing to prevent anything from entering the country, which is the primary role of the CBP agents - to control the flow of people and physical items. Not data.

If the CBP then claims that it's a useful tool/practice because they can identify bad people who shouldn't be allowed in, they should be asked to provide stats on how many people were denied entrance after their devices were checked. My guess is that number is statistically meaningless, probably in the One of the only exceptions I can think of is cases like this one: http://cyb3rcrim3.blogspot.com/2016/04/the-laptop-child-porn... where there is already a legitimate investigation going on and a person is suspected of serious criminal activity and they don't have enough for a warrant. In these cases, the CBP uses the rules regarding border re-entry to their favor to compel a search of a device because they have at least some sort of reasonable suspicion that a device may contain data for which the mere possession of is highly illegal. Other than that, I'm hard-pressed to think of any cases where the mere possession of data would be a felony unless they suspect you of having classified information without the appropriate clearance.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#248

Post by xenophonf »

jacquesm wrote: post #40
xenophonf wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CBP will begin asking everyone for Facebook logins. I don't understand how this doesn't run afoul of the Fourth Amendment. Surely one's social media qualifies as "papers" or "effects" even though they're digital artifacts and not physical. This just seems _incredibly_ invasive.

> This just seems _incredibly_ invasive. You could leave out the 'seems' and it would improve the comment.

You're absolutely right.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#249

Post by sverige »

drvdevd wrote: post #108
no1youknowz wrote: post #19

One thing I have thought about. I have dozens of profiles which are just test accounts for social media, to hook up to applications I've been building. I've been thinking recently to just close all the accounts, including email. This will leave me in a state where I have pretty much no social accounts, just 1 email account which is used for friends/family. Are there any cases of individuals giving up their phone and…

I've wondered the same. What if you just opt out of 90% of everything? What are the implications of not using social media?

I don't have any social media accounts. Last year I crossed the border for the first time in 20 years (to Canada and back) and wasn't asked for anything.

It might be the case that having no online presence reduces your chances of being flagged. Fewer obvious associations, fewer chances for "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" to occur, less chance of some algorithm picking you out of the crowd.

There were some scare pieces a few years ago that somehow not having social media accounts would make one suspect when going to apply for another job, since background checks wouldn't reveal any online presence and that must mean that you're socially defective somehow. It seems like it was probably just a way to goad stragglers into adoption.

The upside of not using social media is better relationships and better mental health.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#250

Post by bfuller »

ipsin wrote: post #172

Are visitors being turned away because they can't provide passwords for social media accounts? Using a local password safe (KeePass2, etc.) should be a great excuse, but I'm not sure what happens next. It bothers me that the US is providing a terrible example of how to treat visitors.

If you think the US is the only country doing this you are sorely mistaken.
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