Live data from Hacker News

What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

arstechnica.com

201–210 of 494 posts

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#201
post #172

Are visitors being turned away because they can't provide passwords for social media accounts? Using a local password safe (KeePass2, etc.) should be a great excuse, but I'm not sure what happens next. It bothers me that the US is providing a terrible example of how to treat visitors.

This is my thought as well. I have a Facebook account, but have no idea what the password is since it's generated...and without my phone/laptop, would have no way to retrieve it.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#202
post #162
post #3

Worth remembering: US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware (perhaps having it returned 6 months later). But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices con…

--> The current best practice for border crossings --- really anywhere in the world --- is simply not to carry anything you're unwilling to unlock for Customs. How do password managers play into this? I'm likely going to be traveling to the US on business. I'll be bringing a travel phone rather than a normal phone (This is my standard travel practice for any country). I could do the same with a computer. I don't mind…

Encrypt your password store using gpg and zx2c4's pass! The GUI app qtpass even works on Windows. I've been using it for months and the system is rock solid and has never let me down.

https://www.passwordstore.org/

They can copy your drive all you want, and you have until 2030 to change your passwords.

Alternatively, just store them in a git repo on a server somewhere and access them remotely.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#203
post #138

The question I have in mind is "do they have the right to confiscate your device or to disappear with it?". What if I told them "I'm going to unlock it, but I'm the driver. Ask me all that you want to see, and I'll take you to that app?".

They would probably take your device and copy entire contents via usb, search with software for select phrases not scroll through your timelines individually. They're not going to consider you scrolling around and not giving up password as an adequate search.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#204
post #142
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is more an issue of practice than theory. Every country might claim the authority to search phones, but if they never actually use it, there is no concern entering those countries in a practical sense.

And considering that something like 0.01% of travelers into the US are ever affected by this, you could say in a practical sense there is no concern here either. That's basically a rounding error worth away from 0%. In fact it sounds more like they generally target specific individuals based on their politics or whatever red flag gets thrown on them from the system. That's certainly dangerous in a way, but in essence…

It doesn't appear that most countries are using this kind of search as a tool of political harassment or intimidation, while there's enough evidence that the US is for people to be concerned.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I pretty much decided to never travel to the US again the first time I heard you may be compelled to unlock your Facebook profile for the customs. Not because I have something particular to hide, but as a gay person in a hostile world I have learned to care about my privacy. Not a huge loss for me, not a huge loss for the US, but it accumulates.

I agree with you. Asia and Eastern Europe are off the list for me too. China is willing to kidnap people out of Thailand [1]; people being arrested over political tweets [2]; Russia can poison people [3], shoot them [4], or have them accused of fake crimes[5]. I really hope the U.S. never comes close to this and hope I see this trend reversed in my lifetime. But people should be aware that it can happen in a modern s…

I see you mentioned Eastern Europe but only include Russia. Eastern Europe includes many other countries open to LGBT communities. Don't always believe the news headlines as they tend to exaggerate. Hungary and Romania have done big efforts towards this, still churches have a lot to say but peoples mentality changed, accepting diversity.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#206
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am astonished by your entitlement. The state has no obligation to tell you about the inner workings of their selection / profiling process. All that counts is safety of its citizens. If I'm not a citizen and representatives of the country I want to enter tell me that they think I am a risk, the systems actually works. Of all these one-sided stories we are hearing one wonders about what kind of darknet "activism" so…

If all that counts is the safety of your citizens, why would anyone ever be allowed to enter a country, unless they were there to perform a life-saving operation or a similar good?

trade.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#207
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why limit it to international travel? People can learn how to kill without leaving the country. We need random checkpoints set up on major highways (and occasionally on minor roads, just to ensure you can't reliably bypass them) to stop and search people to ensure they aren't up to anything nefarious. Actually, it needs to go ever further. You can get up to a lot of trouble without even leaving your home. The police…

Ridiculous arguments don't foster rational debate. We know their are training camps abroad. We know there are no training camps within our borders. What if space aliens are controlling our leaders brains?

> We know there are no training camps within our borders.

No training camps here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/us/a-militia-gets-battle-...

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#208
post #134

I don't know any of my passwords except for my password manager. If I leave my password DB at home, and mail a physical copy to my destination, what can happen? I'll be absolutely unable to access any account.

Then you shouldn't expect to be let into any country. Take the flight back and return when you can actually unlock your phone.

This might actually be the preferred choice for some people who wish to attempt travel, but are unwilling to sacrifice personal private.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#209
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another reason never to sign up for Facebook.

That doesn't necessarily help. Many people have Facebook accounts with names that are not their "real name" as on their ID and plane ticket. If they want to, they'll just claim that you most likely do have an account and you're lying to them, and hold that against you. If you're a foreigner, there is no way to win this if they are determined to make you lose. US visas as well as the documents for the Visa Waiver prog…

> Many people have Facebook accounts with names that are not their "real name" as on their ID and plane ticket. If they want to, they'll just claim that you most likely do have an account and you're lying to them, and hold that against you.

There is also a fairly good chance that someone else with your name does have a Facebook account, and I'm not sure how you'd prove that one of them isn't you.

Even worse, someone could create a fake Facebook account with your name and picture, and put some pretty damaging stuff on it. How would you prove to customs that no that really isn't your account, none of the public posts are yours and you really, truly have no way of logging in? It's like Doxing or SWATing taken to the next level, but you could potentially end up in jail.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#210
post #162
post #3

Worth remembering: US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware (perhaps having it returned 6 months later). But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices con…

--> The current best practice for border crossings --- really anywhere in the world --- is simply not to carry anything you're unwilling to unlock for Customs. How do password managers play into this? I'm likely going to be traveling to the US on business. I'll be bringing a travel phone rather than a normal phone (This is my standard travel practice for any country). I could do the same with a computer. I don't mind…

If you're not a citizen, I think this is probably pretty simple: don't carry anything across the border that you would be uncomfortable being forced to unlock. There's nothing you can encrypt with a passphrase that is protected from a border search, unless you're comfortable being sent back home, losing your computer hardware, and not being allowed back to the US at least until the next Presidential administration, probably 10 years, and possibly forever.

The only point I really want to make:

It is a very bad plan to attempt to outsmart CBP with clever encryption strategies. If you want to protect something, don't bring it to a border crossing. CBP's budget is tens of billions of dollars, and they don't have to break your encryption; they just have to fuck up your entry into the country. The math doesn't work out here for nerds.

Post reply on HN