Master C++ Programming with Open-Source Books • Hacker News Board

Re: Master C++ Programming with Open-Source Books

#61

Post by bluetomcat » Thu, Feb 16, 2017, 4:35 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #43

bluetomcat wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's the real problem with C++. You can spend 20 years solving real problems with it and still feel like a noob when you take a look at "idiomatic" template code from the standard headers. On the other hand, people like Scott Meyers have spent their lifetime and careers explaining its intricacies, without solving any real problems.

Problem? On the contrary, it's one of the wonderful things about the language and community. It's alive and evolving. And what's with the Scott Meyers ding? I think of him mostly as an educator and in that respect he's very accomplished.

I think it boils down to a wider philosophical question that deserves some discussion in software development circles. The question basically is "Should we get obsessed with our constantly evolving tools at the cost of devoting significantly less time to understanding the intrinsic problems we are trying to solve?".

Each time I hear a discussion between programmers, it is always these arguments of whether build tool A is better than build tool B, or whether VCS A suits their workflow better than VCS B, or how cool is the latest language feature. I never see programmers discussing the merits of their solutions, regardless of the language or environment.

Re: Master C++ Programming with Open-Source Books

#62

Post by adrianN » Thu, Feb 16, 2017, 4:41 PM UTC

bluetomcat wrote: post #39

andrepd wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make the language easy to use without any mental burden? But you do realize programming is not easy, especially when you're aiming for high performance. How can you make a language easy to use "without any mental burden"? Programming is hard, programming well and with performance in mind is even more so. Some things you just can't magically make easy.

You can program with "performance in mind" in C and the big difference will be that the problem itself will be the obstruction, not the language. In C++, you fight with the language first and then face the problem.

You can write a C++ program to solve a problem that looks almost exactly like the C program you would write. But C++ brings a couple of nice features, like resource management with constructors/destructors and type-safe data structures that you just can't have in C.

Re: Master C++ Programming with Open-Source Books

#63

Post by jjesus » Thu, Feb 16, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

I didn't see Bruce Eckel's Thinking in C++; the PDF is free: http://mindview.net/Books/TICPP/ThinkingInCPP2e.html

I thought Eckel's book was especially good for someone who already had a background in C.

Re: Master C++ Programming with Open-Source Books

#64

Post by smhenderson » Thu, Feb 16, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

saurabhjha wrote: post #25

I have some C programming experience and I wanted to learn C++ so I bought and started reading Stoustrop's book, thinking it's the K&R of C++. It's the worst programming book I have ever read! It's introduction made me hate C++ and if I didn't had to work with other C++ libraries, I would have avoided C++. The text is full of bloat, for the lack of better word. It's the opposite of crisp writing. I read some good lan…

I find Stoustrop's writing quite the opposite, concise, informative and a touch entertaining at moments. But I can understand why you might see it otherwise, to each his own.

You may find his book "Principles and Practice Using C++" [1] more accessible.

[1] http://www.stroustrup.com/programming.html

Re: Master C++ Programming with Open-Source Books

#65

Post by criddell » Thu, Feb 16, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

bluetomcat wrote: post #61

criddell wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem? On the contrary, it's one of the wonderful things about the language and community. It's alive and evolving. And what's with the Scott Meyers ding? I think of him mostly as an educator and in that respect he's very accomplished.

I think it boils down to a wider philosophical question that deserves some discussion in software development circles. The question basically is "Should we get obsessed with our constantly evolving tools at the cost of devoting significantly less time to understanding the intrinsic problems we are trying to solve?". Each time I hear a discussion between programmers, it is always these arguments of whether build tool…

We talk about tools all the time because it's fun and it's something we all have in common. Every once in a while something like clang comes along and it can change everything.

What we don't have in common are the exact problems we are trying to solve. That's where design patterns and other higher level concepts become useful. Because the problems and solutions are so context specific, they happen on mailing lists. Tool discussions, on the other hand, are more generic and I think that's why you see them in more places.

Re: Master C++ Programming with Open-Source Books

#66

Post by _cx2w » Thu, Feb 16, 2017, 5:00 PM UTC

saurabhjha wrote: post #25

I have some C programming experience and I wanted to learn C++ so I bought and started reading Stoustrop's book, thinking it's the K&R of C++. It's the worst programming book I have ever read! It's introduction made me hate C++ and if I didn't had to work with other C++ libraries, I would have avoided C++. The text is full of bloat, for the lack of better word. It's the opposite of crisp writing. I read some good lan…

> The text is full of bloat, for the lack of better word. It's the opposite of crisp writing.

You mean somewhat similar to the programming language the same person developed?

Re: Master C++ Programming with Open-Source Books

#67

Post by AsyncAwait » Thu, Feb 16, 2017, 5:07 PM UTC

jdhopeunique wrote: post #45

muyuu wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>thinking it's the K&R of C++. You nailed it with that analogy though. K&R is a "first book" and important historically, but right now it's an atrocious book if you want to learn current C and this has been the case for a long, long time. Sometimes these first books don't withstand the test of time.

What's a good book for learning current C?

I can recommend "C Programming: A Modern Approach 2nd Ed."[1].

1 - http://knking.com/books/c2/index.html

Re: Master C++ Programming with Open-Source Books

#68

Post by known » Thu, Feb 16, 2017, 5:07 PM UTC

Try reading OSS C++ code and cross check it with C++ FAQ;

Re: Master C++ Programming with Open-Source Books

#69

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Feb 16, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

saurabhjha wrote: post #25

I have some C programming experience and I wanted to learn C++ so I bought and started reading Stoustrop's book, thinking it's the K&R of C++. It's the worst programming book I have ever read! It's introduction made me hate C++ and if I didn't had to work with other C++ libraries, I would have avoided C++. The text is full of bloat, for the lack of better word. It's the opposite of crisp writing. I read some good lan…

Maybe I suffer from Stockholm syndrome since I read all Bjarne's books, but I really like the book, to the point of having multiple editions of it.

Re: Master C++ Programming with Open-Source Books

#70

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Feb 16, 2017, 5:15 PM UTC

bluetomcat wrote: post #22

criddell wrote: post #13

Can you ever really master C++? I've been at it more than 20 years and I'm still delighted to learn new things about the language and the library.

And that's the real problem with C++. You can spend 20 years solving real problems with it and still feel like a noob when you take a look at "idiomatic" template code from the standard headers. On the other hand, people like Scott Meyers have spent their lifetime and careers explaining its intricacies, without solving any real problems.

Unless we are speaking of Go, all programming languages are like that.

Sometimes people think they know their favorite language, but most would fail a language puzzle quiz.