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“Proof” that Fuchsia will replace Linux for Google

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Re: “Proof” that Fuchsia will replace Linux for Google

#31

Post by relics443 »

rdtsc wrote: post #24
relics443 wrote: post #2

I find it hard to believe that 8+ years of APIs and OS level code would be abandoned just like that, especially given the scale of Android. If this ever happens, it would probably be an extremely slow, well thought out (hopefully), well documented (also hopefully) rollout.

They've already replaced Dalvik with ART for bytecode and it was mostly transparent from what I understood. But popping up with a completely new platform API without any backwards compatibility would be very bold and risky. There would have to be a good compatibility story there. Also there is talk in the article about a POSIX layer. Now that's easier said than done. But it is Google we are talking about so they cert…

A new runtime is very different then a new framework/API/OS. The former doesn't necessarily require code changes (dalvik -> ART did not), the latter requires new everything.

Re: “Proof” that Fuchsia will replace Linux for Google

#32

Post by loeg »

arca_vorago wrote: post #3

I thought google would do something like this. They didn't want to fully embrace linux so they locked all the freedom of linux away behind restrictrions in android until they had a replacement and now they are going to try to drop gnu+linux anything GPL they can... The new kernel is MIT/BSD... Welcome to Tivoization all over again. I get the need for a better kernel, the gnu+linux kernel is out of control at over 14m…

> the last thing we need is another proprietary OS on a device they built on the backs of the FOSS community

If Google builds this kernel from the ground up and chooses to license it MIT, how is any binary derived from that "built on the backs of the FOSS community?"

Re: “Proof” that Fuchsia will replace Linux for Google

#33

Post by techenthusiast »

relics443 wrote: post #26
techenthusiast wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I'm saying :) An (extremely) gradual phase-out of the Android API.

I'm not sure the API can ever really be phased out due to the vast amount of legacy apps and libraries. Besides I'm sure a lot of developers wouldn't be happy that their domain knowledge just went flying through the window. Even if that is a risk inherent in the job.

Extremely, extremely? :) Apple kept Carbon apps running on OS X for a very long time.

Re: “Proof” that Fuchsia will replace Linux for Google

#34

Post by techenthusiast »

relics443 wrote: post #2

I find it hard to believe that 8+ years of APIs and OS level code would be abandoned just like that, especially given the scale of Android. If this ever happens, it would probably be an extremely slow, well thought out (hopefully), well documented (also hopefully) rollout.

You wouldn't have to do it all at once. You'd emulate the Linux user space, and do everything incredibly gradually. Both APIs would be supported for many, many years. But they could stop advancing the Android API within a shorter timeframe.

Re: “Proof” that Fuchsia will replace Linux for Google

#35

Post by techenthusiast »

relics443 wrote: post #31
rdtsc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've already replaced Dalvik with ART for bytecode and it was mostly transparent from what I understood. But popping up with a completely new platform API without any backwards compatibility would be very bold and risky. There would have to be a good compatibility story there. Also there is talk in the article about a POSIX layer. Now that's easier said than done. But it is Google we are talking about so they cert…

A new runtime is very different then a new framework/API/OS. The former doesn't necessarily require code changes (dalvik -> ART did not), the latter requires new everything.

The Android API wouldn't be going anywhere. That's what I say in the article - Fuchsia would continue to support the Android API seamlessly.

Re: “Proof” that Fuchsia will replace Linux for Google

#36

Post by em3rgent0rdr »

pvg wrote: post #23
therealmarv wrote: post #13

Again this blog? Seems we have also fake news problems here on HN. This is all fairy tale speculating for me. And I don't believe his sources. And btw: Tizen is also based on Linux. You don't build that easy a Kernel replacement.

That's not what 'fake news' means. It's perfectly clear the piece is speculative and it does not intentionally deceive (even if it turns out to be completely wrong).

The title is "Proof". The url has "proof". Not only is that a misleading click-baitey title, it is also false, because there is no proof.

Re: “Proof” that Fuchsia will replace Linux for Google

#38

Post by em3rgent0rdr »

loeg wrote: post #32
arca_vorago wrote: post #3

I thought google would do something like this. They didn't want to fully embrace linux so they locked all the freedom of linux away behind restrictrions in android until they had a replacement and now they are going to try to drop gnu+linux anything GPL they can... The new kernel is MIT/BSD... Welcome to Tivoization all over again. I get the need for a better kernel, the gnu+linux kernel is out of control at over 14m…

> the last thing we need is another proprietary OS on a device they built on the backs of the FOSS community If Google builds this kernel from the ground up and chooses to license it MIT, how is any binary derived from that "built on the backs of the FOSS community?"

because the android system was built off the labour of the Linux community.

Re: “Proof” that Fuchsia will replace Linux for Google

#39

Post by flukus »

loeg wrote: post #32
arca_vorago wrote: post #3

I thought google would do something like this. They didn't want to fully embrace linux so they locked all the freedom of linux away behind restrictrions in android until they had a replacement and now they are going to try to drop gnu+linux anything GPL they can... The new kernel is MIT/BSD... Welcome to Tivoization all over again. I get the need for a better kernel, the gnu+linux kernel is out of control at over 14m…

> the last thing we need is another proprietary OS on a device they built on the backs of the FOSS community If Google builds this kernel from the ground up and chooses to license it MIT, how is any binary derived from that "built on the backs of the FOSS community?"

They would likely keep a lot of the gnu userland. Let's not forget that google themselves are built on the backs of the FOSS community, without FOSS there might not be a google at all, certainly not an android.

Re: “Proof” that Fuchsia will replace Linux for Google

#40

Post by em3rgent0rdr »

caf wrote: post #5
arca_vorago wrote: post #3

I thought google would do something like this. They didn't want to fully embrace linux so they locked all the freedom of linux away behind restrictrions in android until they had a replacement and now they are going to try to drop gnu+linux anything GPL they can... The new kernel is MIT/BSD... Welcome to Tivoization all over again. I get the need for a better kernel, the gnu+linux kernel is out of control at over 14m…

I would wager that the majority of those sloc are not compiled into the typical Android kernel, though.

Right. And we have tools like git which are able to handle large codebases. People shouldn't conflate high LoC counts with bloat.
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