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A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

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Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#311

Post by christofosho »

Chris2048 wrote: post #293
austenallred wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok that actually works, but market value will change drastically over time, and fans would be in an uproar

> fans would be in an uproar fans who don't pay top-dollar. Why not focus on fans who do?

Depending on the event, this could make things worse for the arts. Society is seeing a decline in arts attendance in terms of the "older styles" such as theatre and lesser listened to genres (jazz, classical). I'm no expert, but high prices only deem to pull the "common folk" away from events, away from culture.

Imagine if people were attending more events, experiencing more diversity, more art. Culture would probably be a bit less two-sided (in my opinion).

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#312

Post by Chris2048 »

mikeash wrote: post #308
Chris2048 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because personal free time is capped. But if you include work-hours, there is a discrepancy. What do you mean by "the average person"? The median wrt wage? Because the average wage will be the same regardless of distribution.

What do you mean, if you include work hours? I can't think of any way to analyze a person's time which results in the many-orders-of-magnitude inequalities we see with money. For "the average person," pick any reasonable meaning you like. I think they'll all work about the same in this context. The person who makes the most money makes orders of magnitude more than the average. The person who has the most free time h…

> What do you mean, if you include work hours

If I employ someone to do something, they are acting on my behalf, as proxy. These lose the free time I pay them for, and I gain it. Hence an individual that employs people maybe have more than 24 hours a day; e.g. If I pay someone to wait in line for an hour (for a ticket), so I don't have to, then I just bought an hour of free time.

> I think they'll all work about the same in this context

It sounds like you're just guessing then. I tried working it out, but it depends on what you are trying to measure.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#313

Post by Chris2048 »

christofosho wrote: post #311
Chris2048 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fans would be in an uproar fans who don't pay top-dollar. Why not focus on fans who do?

Depending on the event, this could make things worse for the arts. Society is seeing a decline in arts attendance in terms of the "older styles" such as theatre and lesser listened to genres (jazz, classical). I'm no expert, but high prices only deem to pull the "common folk" away from events, away from culture. Imagine if people were attending more events, experiencing more diversity, more art. Culture would probabl…

> Imagine if people were attending more events, experiencing more diversity

If more is being paid for tickets, this will encourage more events. Are you suggesting a small, wealthy population repeatedly go to the same events? How could would reducing prices cause "experiencing more diversity", when every ticket redirected to one person, deprives another.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#314

Post by mikeash »

Chris2048 wrote: post #312
mikeash wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean, if you include work hours? I can't think of any way to analyze a person's time which results in the many-orders-of-magnitude inequalities we see with money. For "the average person," pick any reasonable meaning you like. I think they'll all work about the same in this context. The person who makes the most money makes orders of magnitude more than the average. The person who has the most free time h…

> What do you mean, if you include work hours If I employ someone to do something, they are acting on my behalf, as proxy. These lose the free time I pay them for, and I gain it. Hence an individual that employs people maybe have more than 24 hours a day; e.g. If I pay someone to wait in line for an hour (for a ticket), so I don't have to, then I just bought an hour of free time. > I think they'll all work about the…

Are you arguing that a person might have 1,000 hours of time each week if he hires a bunch of people to do work for him? That is not how it works.

I mean, you can define it that way, but then you and I are just talking about completely different things that happen to use the same spelling, and this discussion is pointless.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#315

Post by Chris2048 »

mikeash wrote: post #314
Chris2048 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do you mean, if you include work hours If I employ someone to do something, they are acting on my behalf, as proxy. These lose the free time I pay them for, and I gain it. Hence an individual that employs people maybe have more than 24 hours a day; e.g. If I pay someone to wait in line for an hour (for a ticket), so I don't have to, then I just bought an hour of free time. > I think they'll all work about the…

Are you arguing that a person might have 1,000 hours of time each week if he hires a bunch of people to do work for him? That is not how it works. I mean, you can define it that way, but then you and I are just talking about completely different things that happen to use the same spelling, and this discussion is pointless.

> That is not how it works

It depends on what you're trying to achieve. That time is a poor metaphor for distributable currency?

It still leaves healthcare and QoL as issues.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#316

Post by mattnewton »

Arizhel wrote: post #163
mattnewton wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ticket scalping hurts artist exposure by finding an equilibrium point on price alone, where many artists may really want to maximize audience size and not earnings from tickets. Concerts are like promotional events for their brand and many people buy albums, swag, post on social media about the event, and that's all beneficial to the artist. Ticket scalping removes the ability of the artist to maximize attendance (an…

>Concerts are like promotional events for their brand and many people buy albums, swag, post on social media about the event, and that's all beneficial to the artist. This isn't true. These days, musicians make the vast majority of their money in touring, from both ticket sales and merchandise (t-shirts) at the venue. They don't make squat from album sales. Notice how many old 70s-80s-era classic rock bands are out t…

Not that the sales occur on premises, but the sales are spurred afterwards, much like how a television advertisement works.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#317

Post by mikeash »

Chris2048 wrote: post #315
mikeash wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you arguing that a person might have 1,000 hours of time each week if he hires a bunch of people to do work for him? That is not how it works. I mean, you can define it that way, but then you and I are just talking about completely different things that happen to use the same spelling, and this discussion is pointless.

> That is not how it works It depends on what you're trying to achieve. That time is a poor metaphor for distributable currency? It still leaves healthcare and QoL as issues.

Who said anything about time as a metaphor for currency?

Health care and quality of life disparities still won't get you anywhere near the level of inequality seen with money.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#318

Post by Chris2048 »

mikeash wrote: post #317
Chris2048 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is not how it works It depends on what you're trying to achieve. That time is a poor metaphor for distributable currency? It still leaves healthcare and QoL as issues.

Who said anything about time as a metaphor for currency? Health care and quality of life disparities still won't get you anywhere near the level of inequality seen with money.

> Who said anything about time as a metaphor for currency?

I did. You talk about distribution of time, then definite as an un-distributable thing.

What has mortality got to do with wealth inequality, if it isn't a metaphor?

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#319

Post by mikeash »

Chris2048 wrote: post #318
mikeash wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said anything about time as a metaphor for currency? Health care and quality of life disparities still won't get you anywhere near the level of inequality seen with money.

> Who said anything about time as a metaphor for currency? I did. You talk about distribution of time, then definite as an un-distributable thing. What has mortality got to do with wealth inequality, if it isn't a metaphor?

Two different meanings of "distribution." Think "probability distribution," not "transfer."

A metaphor is when you literally talk about one thing, but are actually referring to something else. I'm not doing that here. When I talk about time, I'm actually talking about time. I'm comparing it to money, not using it as a metaphor for money.

As for what they have to do with each other, it's simple:

The usual way to allocate scarce goods is to use supply and demand to set an equilibrium price, and then let people spend money in order to obtain it. Another way to allocate scarce goods is to require people to spend time in order to obtain it.

People tend to consider the first way to be unfair, especially for goods with high emotional value, and whose cost to produce is not connected to the price. People tend to consider the second way to be more fair, because time is more equally distributed among humans.

The first paragraph is fact. The second paragraph is observation and speculation. No metaphors in sight.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#320

Post by Chris2048 »

mikeash wrote: post #319
Chris2048 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who said anything about time as a metaphor for currency? I did. You talk about distribution of time, then definite as an un-distributable thing. What has mortality got to do with wealth inequality, if it isn't a metaphor?

Two different meanings of "distribution." Think "probability distribution," not "transfer." A metaphor is when you literally talk about one thing, but are actually referring to something else. I'm not doing that here. When I talk about time, I'm actually talking about time. I'm comparing it to money, not using it as a metaphor for money. As for what they have to do with each other, it's simple: The usual way to alloc…

A metaphor according to dictionary : "A figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.". If you don't consider time to be transferable, talking of it in terms of a currency is exactly this.

> People tend to consider the first way to be unfair

Time and money are linked, so I see both ways as the same. I disagree with the above, some people thing this, but I have no idea what %.

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