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Google’s not-so-secret new OS

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Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#331
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So were Java Applets with AWT. Users hated that, so Sun tried PLAF Uh, Java AWT was the native toolkit. Swing was the non native UI with the ugly METAL default Look and Feel. There are some nice custom Look and Feel implementations that don't try to emulate a platform, I think Matlab uses one for its UI.

Oddly you see non-native toolkits these days for many apps, and users don't seem as bothered anymore, unless I am mistaken? For example, look at Windows 10 and the mishmash of controls (are they flat? or do they have a bevel?) available from the control panel, settings app, old COM dialogs, MMC etc. etc.

> and users don't seem as bothered anymore

What choice do we have? Everyone's doing their own walled garden, so it's not like I can go and find an alternative SaaS / operating system with same features but better UI...

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#332
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is either fantastic satire or hopelessly optimistic. What you are describing is a human level artificial general intelligence. Probably more than 10 years out.

Not really, for simple apps you can use what we already have in place with some meta-programming rules prepared by humans (currently only a few companies posses this capability though). You can use ML like deep learning variations to learn association between your wishes and corresponding code blocks. Initially apps like that would be simple, i.e. "make a web page", done, "change background color to pink gradient", d…

I read a story years ago about a guy who changed careers from being a Programmer when Visual Basic was launched. He reasoned that anyone would be able to create applications so it wouldn't be a viable career anymore.

> You can use ML like deep learning variations to learn association between your wishes and corresponding code blocks

I suggest you read up on ML.

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#333
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, for simple apps you can use what we already have in place with some meta-programming rules prepared by humans (currently only a few companies posses this capability though). You can use ML like deep learning variations to learn association between your wishes and corresponding code blocks. Initially apps like that would be simple, i.e. "make a web page", done, "change background color to pink gradient", d…

Sounds like something that could be used for customizing a CMS a little bit, but software development is something very different from what you're describing. Developing software requires understanding of completely open ended natural language. NLP is nowhere near that level of AI and doubt that it will be in the next 30 years.

Yes, but when you talk to regular people and their needs for web pages, apps, they are often either very trivial or unbearably complex. You can potentially automate away those very trivial with the current state of ML already, and there is a bulk of money there that goes to a lot of independent developers and smaller companies. And once you have such a system built, you can extend it as new advances in ML/GPU come, automating away more and more in the process. Even if you just prepare some vague templates for often performed tasks in business with limiting variations, those can be super helpful.

The point is that only really good SW engineers have any chance to survive, those low-skilled ones will be gradually replaced by automated reasoning.

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#334

It was unfortunately obvious that the writer had insufficient tech chops when use the phrase "a post-API programming model" But pressing on how somehow manages to blame the lack of updates to android phones on the modularity of the Linux kernel. The joke of course being that linux is monolithic and googles new OS is a microkernel ergo more modular. The quote is "...however. I also have to imagine the Android update p…

Not only the OEM hacks but also supporting various hardware

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The status quo right now among android hardware vendors is to violate the GPL No it's not the status quo. The major OEM's do release their code. Yes, there are some Chinese OEM violators, but that's typical of China.

You can release code and still violate the GPL in other ways. For example, there are binary blobs out there and the GPL is pretty unequivocal on this point: "The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it."

It depends whether the binary blob is a derived work or not.

http://yarchive.net/comp/linux/gpl_modules.html

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#336

It was unfortunately obvious that the writer had insufficient tech chops when use the phrase "a post-API programming model" But pressing on how somehow manages to blame the lack of updates to android phones on the modularity of the Linux kernel. The joke of course being that linux is monolithic and googles new OS is a microkernel ergo more modular. The quote is "...however. I also have to imagine the Android update p…

> Android phones don't get updated because for the manufacturers ensuring their pile of hacks works with a newer version of android would represent a non trivial amount of work for the oem whom already has your money. The only way they can get more of your money is to sell you a new phone which they hope to do between 1-2 years from now.

The fact you need Android device OEM's support is precisely the problem here, and that's mostly (mostly - admittedly not entirely) to blame on the way that manufacturers need to update their Linux kernels. Linux' monolithic nature makes this a major pain, especially since component manufacturers (for the SoC, touchscreen, fingerprint reader, camera sensor) implicitly require maintaining some non-mainline Linux. The manufacturer now serves as the central hub coordinating this 'mess' to update their devices. Mostly (again, not entirely) due to Linux, Android updates are dependant on manufacturers compiling update packages which are essentially full system upgrades. Each time they make an upgrade for a phone, they need to make an entire new device image.

The manufacturers have clearly shown to be incapable of handling this responsibility, both in terms of their abilities as well as their motivations. A more modular OS would go a long way in taking away these responsibilities, since it will be technical means by which responsibilities can be given to a better motivated third party. Clearly we should be looking towards a model more akin to Microsoft Windows, where there's a more stable driver API/ABI for drivers, that allows the OS' original manufacturer to update critical components and introduce new features without depending on an incapable/unwilling manufacturer. Make system updates not full system upgrades, but make the system able to update some components with reasonable confidence that things will keep on working. With such a system Google or the "Open Handset Alliance" - or depending on the openness of this new Andromium, others like the LineageOS community - can take care of updating phones instead of the device OEM.

In such a scenario you might still be stuck on graphics drivers from several years ago with serious rendering bugs, but at least security issues like Stagefright [1] and Dirty COW [2] can be effectively dealt with in a matter of days. That's a huge improvement over the current situation, where the majority of Android devices are still affected by both issues, years or months after their publication.

Imagine how unlucky we should be to be fully dependant on Asus or LG for software support on our laptops. But that's exactly the situation on our phones.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagefright_(bug) [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_COW

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#337
post #297

> IDEs written in Java are wildly slow… My favourite IDE to use today is IntelliJ, and I prefer it over my experience with Visual Studio (though to be fair, I did not use VS intensively in the past 3-4 years). I don't experience IntelliJ as "slow". It launches faster than VS did when I used it, and once it is running I keep it open pretty much the entire work-week without any issues.

Other than Netbeans and Eclipse being faster and don't turn my dual core into airplane mode like Android Studio does, which forced me to enable laptop mode on it.

I don't really understand what you are trying to say, sorry :/

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#338

> IDEs written in Java are wildly slow… My favourite IDE to use today is IntelliJ, and I prefer it over my experience with Visual Studio (though to be fair, I did not use VS intensively in the past 3-4 years). I don't experience IntelliJ as "slow". It launches faster than VS did when I used it, and once it is running I keep it open pretty much the entire work-week without any issues.

It's an odd statement to make, given that he states he's not a programmer in the notes.

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#339
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way they can get more of your money is to sell you a new phone which they hope to do between 1-2 years from now. The thing is, this only works on countries similar to US where most people are on contracts. In the rest of the world, where people are on pre-paid, we use our phones until they either die or get stolen, which is way more than just 1-2 years.

Bump it to 3-4 years then. Bloated manufacturer updates combine with bloat in most popular applications and the regular web bloat to make the phone unusably slow after few years. Between that and fragility of smartphones (mechanical damage, water damage), most people are bound to replace theirs every few years anyway.

> Bump it to 3-4 years then. Bloated manufacturer updates combine with bloat in most popular applications and the regular web bloat to make the phone unusably slow after few years.

My S3 is 4 years old now, and it is works perfectly fine.

When it dies, I will most likely adopt one of my Lumia devices as main one, or will buy a 2nd hand Android device, instead of giving money to support bad OEMs

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#340
post #74

It bothers me that Google does not seem particularly interested in doing the one thing that would make their Android platform absolutely dominant: Allow Chrome to run Android apps on Mac and Windows. Google has already done 90% of the necessary work by adding Android apps to ChromeOS. Two and a half years ago it created "App Runtime for Chrome" which demonstrated that Android apps could run on Windows and Mac in a li…

There was a talk at the X Developers Conference 2016 about the ARC (App Runtime for Chrome). Seems like it is still being developed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PflCyiULO4&t=2h10m50s
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