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Google’s not-so-secret new OS

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Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#231

Post by isoos »

throwawaydbfif wrote: post #56
resoluteteeth wrote: post #12

Is this an actual plan of Google as a company, or is this some sort of Microsoft-style war between divisions where the Chrome team has just decided on its own that the future is based on Chrome and Dart? Also, considering the way that the ARC runtime for Chromebooks was a failure and had to be replaced by a system that apparently essentially runs Android in a container, will it really be possible for a completely dif…

I would say that Google is trying to replace JavaScript with dart in any way they possibly can. The reason is simple, JavaScript is an open standard, dart is owned by google. Their reasons that "dart is better" is the typical google koolaid before they attempt a market takeover. As we've seen over and over with Android, chrome, and AMP especially. Google loves to make glass house open source projects you can't touch.…

Looks like alternative facts have reached the tech world too?

You can take as hard look at Google as you would like, but choosing Microsoft over Google (one for-profit company over another), while not caring how the technology, the licensing or the workflow compares is a bit hypocrite. (e.g.they are both open, and they both have rules of commits).

I'm wondering, why do you need a throwaway for such heavily invested FUD? Your other comments here are in similar tone, and I'm surprised to see such hatred without any obvious trigger. Maybe if you would come forward with your story, it would be easier to discuss it?

disclaimer: ex-Googler, worked with Dart for 4+ years, I think it is way ahead of the JS/TS stack in many regards.

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#232

Post by ocdtrekkie »

sangnoir wrote: post #208
pjmlp wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is 100% to blame. There are these things called contracts, and if there are clauses for an OEM to be allowed to have access to Google services, Google lawyers could certainly add a few more sentences regarding compulsory updates.

Android is open source, and OEMs see long-term updates as a money-losing proposal. If the "lost sales" (to them) costs outweigh the benefit of shipping Google services, OEMs will fork/ship AOSP and call it a day - they want profits more than they respect/fear Google. Google's negotiating position is not unassailable.

It sounds like you have no idea how deep Google's MADA contracts with OEMs already go. =) Shipping devices with Google services included requires you sign over your entire business decisionmaking to Google: They have approval/veto power over every single device and software update you release that contains their services, and they also forbid you to sell any devices running Android that don't contain their services, just to make sure you don't try to exert any independence on the side.

Android isn't open source, except in the hearts and minds of fanboys everywhere. =)

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#233

Post by ocdtrekkie »

quanticle wrote: post #80
resoluteteeth wrote: post #12

Is this an actual plan of Google as a company, or is this some sort of Microsoft-style war between divisions where the Chrome team has just decided on its own that the future is based on Chrome and Dart? Also, considering the way that the ARC runtime for Chromebooks was a failure and had to be replaced by a system that apparently essentially runs Android in a container, will it really be possible for a completely dif…

I have my doubts. Hiroshi Lockheimer, the SVP of both Android and ChromeOS stated, "There is no point in merging them. They're both successful. We just want to make sure that both sides benefit from each other," referring specifically to rumors at the time that said that ChromeOS and Android were merging. http://bgr.com/2016/12/13/android-chrome-os-merging-google/

I suspect this is true, in that Fuchsia is simply a potential replacement for both... not a "merge". But bear in mind, marketing voices like Hiroshi's job is to promote and sell people on the existing product... right up until the day they decide to officially announce something else.

So, even if they were presently 100% focused on merging the two OSes, Hiroshi's job would be to convince you they aren't as not to risk impacting the bottom line of their sales and their partnerships with OEMs that are continuing to print money for them.

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#234

Post by Yuioup »

josefx wrote: post #117
mark242 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sun tried that, back in the day. Maybe you heard about Java applets, maybe you didn't. They were the slowest thing about the web, insecure even with a sandbox, and just an overall pain. Short of having a jvm always running on your machine, the performance of Android-via-Chrome will completely turn people off the Android ecosystem.

I remember two issues with Java Applets: * Java itself was slow for a long time * The Browser would hang while loading an Applet The first is no longer an issue. They can just use a modern just in time compiler and it wont run slower than Java on Android. Chrome already has one to deal with JavaScript powered Web 2.0 applications. The second was as far as I can tell an API issue. Applets would block everything by def…

Don't forget about the security issues that left machines with unpatched Java versions vulnarable to attacks.

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#235

Post by fvinci »

MarkMc wrote: post #74

It bothers me that Google does not seem particularly interested in doing the one thing that would make their Android platform absolutely dominant: Allow Chrome to run Android apps on Mac and Windows. Google has already done 90% of the necessary work by adding Android apps to ChromeOS. Two and a half years ago it created "App Runtime for Chrome" which demonstrated that Android apps could run on Windows and Mac in a li…

Does anyone think this is where they are going with Angular?

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#236

Post by glasz »

jcranmer wrote: post #186
camdenlock wrote: post #122

This could be the first time Apple needs to truly worry about Google. The one massive lead Apple still has over Google (and the other major players) is the incredible OS they inherited back in 1997 and continue to extend and maintain today. Neither Android nor Windows nor Chrome OS nor your favorite Linux distro have ever been able to truly compete with the NeXT legacy as it lives on in Apple. Google is smart enough…

> Neither Android nor Windows nor Chrome OS nor your favorite Linux distro have ever been able to truly compete with the NeXT legacy as it lives on in Apple. I find this a funny statement. Apple has not seen runaway success in terms of market share, not on desktop platforms (where the top OSes are various versions of Windows), not on mobile platforms (where it is a distant second to Android in the worldwide market),…

it's not about market share. it's about profit share. android/ios may be 80/20 on market. but they are 20/80 on profit.

market share won't feed nobody. that's all apple needs to care about. just look at their market cap and p/e ratio.

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#237

Post by ocdtrekkie »

hota_mazi wrote: post #170
camdenlock wrote: post #122

This could be the first time Apple needs to truly worry about Google. The one massive lead Apple still has over Google (and the other major players) is the incredible OS they inherited back in 1997 and continue to extend and maintain today. Neither Android nor Windows nor Chrome OS nor your favorite Linux distro have ever been able to truly compete with the NeXT legacy as it lives on in Apple. Google is smart enough…

> This could be the first time Apple needs to truly worry about Google. Er... what? Apple has been worried, and actually threatened, by Google every day since 2008, when the first version of Android came out. Without Android, Apple would probably have a 90% monopoly on mobile phones today. Saying they might be "worried" is beyond an understatement. They are absolutely furious at Google, as Jobs was until he passed aw…

Android's global market share, even with Apple, is 85%. Bear in mind, the iPhone is only popular in the US, which is responsible for most of the remaining 15%. Outside the US, Android is a completely unquestioned monopoly.

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#239

Post by RyanZAG »

ianai wrote: post #217
RyanZAG wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's specific apps, usually it is just bad coding. 'Enterprise Java' style coding where performance is not even tested for, let alone designed into the algorithms. Usually culprits are things like downloading multiple data files in a single threaded block, or insanely deep object graphs with thousands of memory fetches per real operation. That's not really anything to do with the technique (code in browsers) or th…

They're not really enterprise apps. They're just betting odds displays. But I hear you on the criticism of enterprise software still. I just don't think it's the thing here.

Why would betting odds displays escape from Enterprise Java? Seems like the kind of thing that would get it in spades for regulatory and CYA reasons.

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#240

Post by pjmlp »

sangnoir wrote: post #208
pjmlp wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is 100% to blame. There are these things called contracts, and if there are clauses for an OEM to be allowed to have access to Google services, Google lawyers could certainly add a few more sentences regarding compulsory updates.

Android is open source, and OEMs see long-term updates as a money-losing proposal. If the "lost sales" (to them) costs outweigh the benefit of shipping Google services, OEMs will fork/ship AOSP and call it a day - they want profits more than they respect/fear Google. Google's negotiating position is not unassailable.

> OEMs will fork/ship AOSP and call it a day - they want profits more than they respect/fear Google.

Good luck getting all those apps running without Google services, or getting the devs to re-written them to use alternative APIs.

It only works in countries like China because of the way the government controls everything.

I pretty much doubt anyone cares about Amazon or Jolla's fork, or cared for the Blackberry's one.

It is just about not caring one second to enforce updates.

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