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Google’s not-so-secret new OS

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Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#161

Post by happosai »

resoluteteeth wrote: post #12

Is this an actual plan of Google as a company, or is this some sort of Microsoft-style war between divisions where the Chrome team has just decided on its own that the future is based on Chrome and Dart? Also, considering the way that the ARC runtime for Chromebooks was a failure and had to be replaced by a system that apparently essentially runs Android in a container, will it really be possible for a completely dif…

Like the plan9 people working at google pivoted plan9 into golang, this is the BeOS people working at google re-inventing BeOS into something new.

But golang could be started in internal use with incredimental steps. fuchsia/andromeda in contrast have non-code barriers for entry like management approval and industry adoption. My guess is that it will pivot from a full-blown android replacement into something more focused.

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#162

Post by felixge »

maheart wrote: post #153

How credible is this source? I don't understand half the decisions outlined in the article. > I also have to imagine the Android update problem (a symptom of Linux’s modularity) I seriously doubt the Linux kernel is anything but a minor contributor to Android's update problem. Handset developers make their money by selling physical phones. In two years, your average consumer probably doesn't care if their device is s…

> In two years, your average consumer probably doesn't care if their device is still receiving software updates. They'll jump onto a new phone plan, with a fresh, cool new mobile, with a better screen, newer software (features!), and a refreshed battery.

This might be true for the US, where 75% of subscribers are on post-paid (contracts). It's not true for the rest of the world.

* Europe: * Rest of the world: I'd also argue that Android users will be more likely to be pre-paid than post-paid customers (compared to iPhone users) in all of these regions, but I have no data to back it up.

Anyway, I agree that it's probably not very profitable, if at all, for android handset makers to support their devices for > 2 years. But I think many customers would benefit from it ...

[1] http://www.globalrewardsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/GRS-...

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#163

Post by sangnoir »

maheart wrote: post #153

How credible is this source? I don't understand half the decisions outlined in the article. > I also have to imagine the Android update problem (a symptom of Linux’s modularity) I seriously doubt the Linux kernel is anything but a minor contributor to Android's update problem. Handset developers make their money by selling physical phones. In two years, your average consumer probably doesn't care if their device is s…

> I seriously doubt the Linux kernel is anything but a minor contributor to Android's update problem

The Linux kernel is at the very heart of Android's update problem - not because of "modularity" but because it lacks a stable ABI. Because of this, Android requires handset makers and SoC manufacturers like Qualcomm to provide updated drivers; these parties are perversely disincentivized to do so as they would rather sell more of their latest model/chip. If the Linux kernel's ABI were stable, Google could bypass the manufacturers altogether when sending out updates.

The Android ROM community struggles with this - you can update the userspace or overclock the kernel to your heart's content, but you will forever be stuck with whatever kernel version the OEM-supplied drivers support.

Edit: added ROM paragraph

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#164

Post by babesh »

vii wrote: post #53

It's awesome that Google is doing this and in public too https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/ Unfortunately, the hard part of an operating system isn't in a cool API and a rendering demo. It's in integrating the fickle whims of myriad hardware devices with amazingly high expectations of reliability and performance consistency under diverse workloads. People don't like dropped frames when they plug in USB :) Writing devi…

A product I worked on was a victim of Microsoft changing preferred APIs. Their competing product which the prior year had less market share somehow sported the new UI instantly when the UI became publicly available. Monopolistic behavior if you ask me.

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#165

Post by tajen »

maheart wrote: post #153

How credible is this source? I don't understand half the decisions outlined in the article. > I also have to imagine the Android update problem (a symptom of Linux’s modularity) I seriously doubt the Linux kernel is anything but a minor contributor to Android's update problem. Handset developers make their money by selling physical phones. In two years, your average consumer probably doesn't care if their device is s…

> In two years, your average consumer probably doesn't care if their device is still receiving updates

Well, that's exactly why I've bought an iPhone this time. Exactly €1000 lost for the Android ecosystem, just because I want encryption. I know, Android 6.0 has encryption by default, but 4.4 doesn't, and that's the point. The whole story displays a lack of professionalism, in my opinion.

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#166

Post by lultimouomo »

maheart wrote: post #153

How credible is this source? I don't understand half the decisions outlined in the article. > I also have to imagine the Android update problem (a symptom of Linux’s modularity) I seriously doubt the Linux kernel is anything but a minor contributor to Android's update problem. Handset developers make their money by selling physical phones. In two years, your average consumer probably doesn't care if their device is s…

Also, the customers that do care basically don't have much choice. With the Nexus line gone, you have to spend a lot of money for a Pixel to get a decent chance of having updates for a few years.

For the past year I've been every now and then looking for a mid-level Android tablet and I've always given up, since they all ship already with an outdated version of Android and slim chances of even getting an update to the current one (let alone future versions)

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#168

Post by paulfurtado »

sangnoir wrote: post #163
maheart wrote: post #153

How credible is this source? I don't understand half the decisions outlined in the article. > I also have to imagine the Android update problem (a symptom of Linux’s modularity) I seriously doubt the Linux kernel is anything but a minor contributor to Android's update problem. Handset developers make their money by selling physical phones. In two years, your average consumer probably doesn't care if their device is s…

> I seriously doubt the Linux kernel is anything but a minor contributor to Android's update problem The Linux kernel is at the very heart of Android's update problem - not because of "modularity" but because it lacks a stable ABI. Because of this, Android requires handset makers and SoC manufacturers like Qualcomm to provide updated drivers; these parties are perversely disincentivized to do so as they would rather…

Just like RHEL/CentOS, couldn't Google maintain a stable kernel ABI throughout a given android major release such that manufacturers could write a driver once, and have it continue working for the lifetime of that major android release?

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#169

Post by babayega2 »

josefx wrote: post #117
mark242 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sun tried that, back in the day. Maybe you heard about Java applets, maybe you didn't. They were the slowest thing about the web, insecure even with a sandbox, and just an overall pain. Short of having a jvm always running on your machine, the performance of Android-via-Chrome will completely turn people off the Android ecosystem.

I remember two issues with Java Applets: * Java itself was slow for a long time * The Browser would hang while loading an Applet The first is no longer an issue. They can just use a modern just in time compiler and it wont run slower than Java on Android. Chrome already has one to deal with JavaScript powered Web 2.0 applications. The second was as far as I can tell an API issue. Applets would block everything by def…

Chrome is already hanging and crushing on Ubuntu 14.04. I imagine adding applications will be worse.

Re: Google’s not-so-secret new OS

#170

Post by hota_mazi »

camdenlock wrote: post #122

This could be the first time Apple needs to truly worry about Google. The one massive lead Apple still has over Google (and the other major players) is the incredible OS they inherited back in 1997 and continue to extend and maintain today. Neither Android nor Windows nor Chrome OS nor your favorite Linux distro have ever been able to truly compete with the NeXT legacy as it lives on in Apple. Google is smart enough…

> This could be the first time Apple needs to truly worry about Google.

Er... what?

Apple has been worried, and actually threatened, by Google every day since 2008, when the first version of Android came out.

Without Android, Apple would probably have a 90% monopoly on mobile phones today. Saying they might be "worried" is beyond an understatement.

They are absolutely furious at Google, as Jobs was until he passed away.

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