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India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

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Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#151

Post by infinite8s »

chimeracoder wrote: post #143
wallace_f wrote: post #125

The economist inside me says it would be better to tax disposable plastic. The tax could cover the cost to clean up the litter. That would create jobs in three ways: 1) plastic clean-up jobs, 2) businesses and economic activity that desperately need disposable plastic can still possibly survive, and ) jobs making disposable plastic. Anyways, it's a lot better than taxing things we all agree we want more of. Like jobs…

> The tax could cover the cost to clean up the litter. That would create jobs in three ways: 1) plastic clean-up jobs, 2) businesses and economic activity that desperately need disposable plastic can still possibly survive, and ) jobs making disposable plastic. Enforcement of a ban will likely come through a fine, which will have the same effect. Think of the ban as a very large excise tax. Plus, the ban only applies…

This also happens in New York City. On trash day people will systematically rummage through the garbage that is placed on the curbs and pull out all recyclable plastic bottles and cans:

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/GYHNNA/new-york-new-york-city-nyc-l...

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#152

Post by st3v3r »

theparanoid wrote: post #108

Here in California single use plastic bags are banned. Now it's a pain, at checkout you either have to tell them how many multiuse bags to charge or bring bags from home. No so many years ago paper bags were common and what I used. Paper is great, it's biodegradable, renewable, and convenient.

I live in California too, and it's not a pain at all for me.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#153

Post by chimeracoder »

infinite8s wrote: post #151
chimeracoder wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tax could cover the cost to clean up the litter. That would create jobs in three ways: 1) plastic clean-up jobs, 2) businesses and economic activity that desperately need disposable plastic can still possibly survive, and ) jobs making disposable plastic. Enforcement of a ban will likely come through a fine, which will have the same effect. Think of the ban as a very large excise tax. Plus, the ban only applies…

This also happens in New York City. On trash day people will systematically rummage through the garbage that is placed on the curbs and pull out all recyclable plastic bottles and cans: http://c8.alamy.com/comp/GYHNNA/new-york-new-york-city-nyc-l...

Yes, that happens everywhere that practices bottle deposit refunds. But what I'm talking about goes even further - people will rummage plastic bags, even, which I've never seen in NYC or the US at all.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#154

Post by agentgt »

If you are not using reusable bags when going to the grocery store (or any store) please attempt to try it.

It absolutely amazing how many more groceries you can put in a reusable bag over a plastic or paper bags. So at the bare minimum it is an optimization (less trips from car to kitchen).

When I bring this up with people I get unbelievable false rationalization like: I reuse the bags for trash or the reusable bags take 100x to make over plastic bags.

Plastic grocery bags have knack of flying into lakes, rivers and streams. I have saved many turtles and fish a long the Charles river that are caught in these bags. I have never seen a kitchen trash bag or a reusable bag in the river.

Many grocery stores even give a discount if you use reusable bags not to mention reusable bags are extremely cheap (I don't think I have ever paid more than $2).

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#155

Post by chimeracoder »

wallace_f wrote: post #141
cheesy_dionysus wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local governments in India (mostly all of them) tax disposable plastic already.

Then the tax was not high enough. The role of government should not be to use heavy-handed rules that arbitrarily distort market and place limits on freedoms. It can work out better for everyone to govern the externalities of human behaviour through market incentives. Everyone can win in that situation. People that still really need disposable plastic can still buy it if they need it that much. In other words, there…

> People that still really need disposable plastic can still buy it if they need it that much. In other words, there is a price equilibrium where the cost of plastic pollution to society is less than the revenue generated by plastic goods consumption.

Your theory is correct, but you're not taking into account that, in Delhi, it's far easier (read: cheaper) to enforce a ban on the sale/use than it is to ensure tax compliance.

Delhi proper is twice the population of Colorado, and the metro area has four times the population of Colorado. Combine that with a relatively porous implementation of laws, and it's just way easier to go for a complete ban.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#156

Post by sfifs »

Various forms of plastic bans keep getting imposed year after year in different places in India.

Nothing practically happens because:

a. Police has better things to do than round up people and shops carrying plastic bags. They may probably take a bribe from the shop to turn a blind eye.

b. There's no really low cost and convenient alternative in many cases - in spite of a lot of shops in India using recycled newspapers for packaging.

Home delivery which is widespread among the richer classes is at least partially helpful since shops bring things in their own bags. However most of India is not rich

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#157

Post by piyushpr134 »

sfifs wrote: post #156

Various forms of plastic bans keep getting imposed year after year in different places in India. Nothing practically happens because: a. Police has better things to do than round up people and shops carrying plastic bags. They may probably take a bribe from the shop to turn a blind eye. b. There's no really low cost and convenient alternative in many cases - in spite of a lot of shops in India using recycled newspape…

I think you are being knowingly stupid here. Bangalore has plastic ban and works very well. It does not apply to people but enforced by BBMP (municipal corporation) on businesses to either not use plastic or to use biodegradeable one. It works very well. I do not come across much plastic here

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#158

Post by piyushpr134 »

wallace_f wrote: post #141
cheesy_dionysus wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local governments in India (mostly all of them) tax disposable plastic already.

Then the tax was not high enough. The role of government should not be to use heavy-handed rules that arbitrarily distort market and place limits on freedoms. It can work out better for everyone to govern the externalities of human behaviour through market incentives. Everyone can win in that situation. People that still really need disposable plastic can still buy it if they need it that much. In other words, there…

If you make tax too high then people would steal. They would buy without receipts etc. Better to ban inflow of plastic consignments of plastic, close plastic factories in city limits and keep a tab on businesses. It works decently in Bangalore.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#159

Post by piyushpr134 »

agentgt wrote: post #154

If you are not using reusable bags when going to the grocery store (or any store) please attempt to try it. It absolutely amazing how many more groceries you can put in a reusable bag over a plastic or paper bags. So at the bare minimum it is an optimization (less trips from car to kitchen). When I bring this up with people I get unbelievable false rationalization like: I reuse the bags for trash or the reusable bags…

I am pretty sure this would lead to this. Bangalore already has this ban and most grocery stores use disposables or use biodegradable plastic. In Mumbai(Bombay), every plastic bag costs INR 3 to buy from grocer. This works well in large shops but not so much in mom and pop who give it for free

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#160

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

When it comes to banning plastic bags, India takes the lead & not just Delhi; cities like Mumbai, Karwar, Tirumala, Vasco, Rajasthan all have a ban on the bag though enforcement is questionable. Where as rural villages such as 'Mawlynnong' has not only banned the plastic bags but also got the title of 'Asia's cleanest village', there are other such villages in India. It should be commended that, villages which hosts majority of population with lower economic backgrounds are doing their part to protect their environment even when it's much difficult for them to do so than their counterparts in the cities who usually don't need to worry about whether their children get to eat today.
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