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I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

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Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#181

Post by type0 »

jazoom wrote: post #174
khedoros1 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you aren't planning on going to the US or to whichever other countries might try something similar, then I suppose it's a moot point for you, and you don't need to worry about your phone at all. But if your home government started treating you unreasonably, you might also be interested in having a discussion about possible reactions to the new policies, right?

Maybe, but I don't know when I might need it in the future, and when the time comes it's already too late. That is why I'm interested in this topic now. That is also why I'm not dismissing the idea because of some possible charges that might be laid against me by some possible border control person some time in the future. I have nothing to hide personally. I'm more concerned about business secrets and SSH keys.

> I have nothing to hide personally. I'm more concerned about business secrets and SSH keys.

If you have nothing to hide you should have nothing to fear. Because you know that US is never involved in industrial espionage and Snowden NSA leaks have allegedly never happened.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#182

Post by vatotemking »

khedoros1 wrote: post #164
vatotemking wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the agent forces you to give them the password for "untravel mode", which restores data to your phone from the cloud?

What if doing so requires a key stored on a computer at home? Or if the system has a duress password that restores plausible-seeming crap? Or if you did just factory-wipe it with no cloud-based backup? You can keep going back and forth with "what if" scenarios, but I'm not sure what the point would be.

> What if doing so requires a key stored on a computer at home? Or if the system has a duress password that restores plausible-seeming crap?

All that sounds like a UX nightmare.

The point is its all moot solving this at a technological level.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#183

Post by khedoros1 »

vatotemking wrote: post #182
khedoros1 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if doing so requires a key stored on a computer at home? Or if the system has a duress password that restores plausible-seeming crap? Or if you did just factory-wipe it with no cloud-based backup? You can keep going back and forth with "what if" scenarios, but I'm not sure what the point would be.

> What if doing so requires a key stored on a computer at home? Or if the system has a duress password that restores plausible-seeming crap? All that sounds like a UX nightmare. The point is its all moot solving this at a technological level.

> All that sounds like a UX nightmare.

It does, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

> The point is its all moot solving this at a technological level.

If I'm reading that right, it's closer to what I was thinking when I wrote my comment. We can come up with a bunch of clever solutions, someone else can shoot them down with plausible scenarios, but regardless, some asshole at the border can still say "I don't believe your phone's blank, and I don't believe you don't have a Twitter/Facebook/etc account. So, you'll need to restore your phone and give us your social media passwords to get out of here"

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#184

Post by accountface »

korethr wrote: post #83
accountface wrote: post #61

They can detain me indefinitely if they want, I will never give my pin to border security. I'm not going to bend to this bullshit by not carrying a phone.

It's easy to say that now. When the pressure's actually on and a person now has things at stake, priorities can change, and yielding starts to look like the eminently sensible thing to do. I suspect your tune may change when you find yourself in indefinite detention, have missed your connecting flight, and your family/friend/spouse/boss has called said phone and been told by CBP that you're refusing to comply with an…

No.

If my peers find it acceptable that I am detained indefinitely simply for not unlocking my phone, then throw away the key because all is lost.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#185

Post by 6t6t6t6 »

rch wrote: post #11

Phones should load different profiles based on the password provided, with some activity logged across profiles so none of them appear stale.

Most of the information on Android phones is stored on the Cloud. Someone can factory reset their phone before crossing the border, create a new empty profile* just to show it to customs and, once they are in a "safe zone", factory-reset it again and load the good profile that will automatically download the user data and apps.

* Just to make the customs agents happy, I would fill the history of the fake profile with porn and pictures of donuts.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#186

Post by 6t6t6t6 »

colemannugent wrote: post #123

This might have been suggested before, but I think it's novel enough to repeat: You should be able to create two passwords for all devices. One, your password, would allow you to use the device normally, the other, your lastword, would start a silent erasure of the device. The device could even present a fake successful authentication, like dumping you to some fake desktop, while it erases your data. While in this ca…

With a laptop, this seems trivial: just create a second user in the system with some data (so it does not look empty). Then create a login script that deletes the data of you primary user and deletes itself. Nobody would ever realize what happened (except with forensic tools).

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#187

Post by Spooky23 »

benologist wrote: post #74
Spooky23 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're implying that people should behave in a manner that is a serious felony in the United States and likely other places.

What is the maximum extent to which we can defend users of our software?

Have a mode that allows users to selectively designate and delete sensitive data.

Everyone has the feels over this border stuff and HN is collectively spewing the same inane questions repeatedly, but the reality is that people are more likely to get into trouble more often when spouses, employers, teachers, family, etc get to see things that weren't intended to be seen.

We have airplane mode to shut off phone radios, why not a purge mode to whack marked data. On iOS, the most rudimentary level of this sort of protection is available with MDM -- you can configure a device to erase managed data when it leaves a building or campus. The device is still active and manageable, but the data is gone until it becomes compliant.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#188

Post by lordlimecat »

dudul wrote: post #139
chadgeidel wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I thought that only extended OUTSIDE the border, not INSIDE as well!

What? That doesn't make any sense. Constitutional rights don't apply anywhere outside the border as far as I know. In this context, the area can only extend inside. Or do I misunderstand your comment?

The thing is, the bill of rights doesnt say anything about that. It says "the government shall not", and it seems to me any sane interpretation would say it applies wherever the government is active and claiming jurisdiction.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#189

Post by nojvek »

In this age of digital instant copy, Facebook has made a lot of things the norm. I watch TV shows and cyber stalking is seen as normal.

A good friend of mine was blackmailed by her boyfriend that her sensitive pictures would be released on the Internet if she didn't return his calls. It was the first time she realized that what was considered silly can really be very serious. She deleted her Facebook and Twitter account.

I really want to see a big hack, sort of a global financial crisis level on the surveillance govt is collecting for people to realize this shit can really fuck society up.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#190

Post by oAlbe »

jazoom wrote: post #174
khedoros1 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you aren't planning on going to the US or to whichever other countries might try something similar, then I suppose it's a moot point for you, and you don't need to worry about your phone at all. But if your home government started treating you unreasonably, you might also be interested in having a discussion about possible reactions to the new policies, right?

Maybe, but I don't know when I might need it in the future, and when the time comes it's already too late. That is why I'm interested in this topic now. That is also why I'm not dismissing the idea because of some possible charges that might be laid against me by some possible border control person some time in the future. I have nothing to hide personally. I'm more concerned about business secrets and SSH keys.

> I have nothing to hide personally.

You do. And even if you don't, you should hide it anyway. Please stop using that sentence at all.

“Never say anything in an electronic message that you wouldn’t want appearing, and attributed to you, in tomorrow morning’s front-page headline in the New York Times.” — Colonel David Russell, former head of DARPA’s Information Processing Techniques Office

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