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A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

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Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#51

Post by halflings »

jstanley wrote: post #8

> The scourge of ticket bots and the immorality of the shady ticket scalpers using them is conventional wisdom I very much disagree. If I am willing to pay the asking price for tickets, I should be able to buy them. If you're offering them so cheaply that I will happily buy all of the tickets then you're offering them too cheap and you can't really complain if I buy them. If it weren't for ticket-scalpers, die-hard f…

Sorry for the iffy analogy, but the first thing that comes to mind is hedge funds speculating over food [1], and the real-world impact that has on poor people that clearly have no say in the game.

Scalpers are making a ton of money by creating an artificial shortage of tickets, not because there were already people willing to pay such a high price. If fresh water would cost $100 tomorrow, I'm sure people will still be willing to pay for it (because they really want it, and that's the only price they can get it for). Doesn't mean that it's fair in any way.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/jul/19/speculators...

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#52

Post by Kiro »

kbenson wrote: post #41
ryandrake wrote: post #3

> "There's an emotional aspect to what artists do, which is to say 'I'm not willing to charge $500 even though clearly the market value is $500. I'm going to charge $100, and at the end of the day someone else is going to make that money,'" The bots are just a symptom. Seems like this is likely the root of the problem. If the primary market was efficient, then there would be no secondary market, and the whole point o…

Even with an accurate primary market, the secondary market would exist. For example, and artist may sell out their event, but then become more popular, causing tickets to be worth more. Some percentage of people will decide that they would rather have the profit than the ticket. Ticket holders may also find they are unable (or no longer want to) attend, so may want to sell their tickets.

Sure, just as any other good with a functioning supply and demand.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#53

Post by darpa_escapee »

jstanley wrote: post #8

> The scourge of ticket bots and the immorality of the shady ticket scalpers using them is conventional wisdom I very much disagree. If I am willing to pay the asking price for tickets, I should be able to buy them. If you're offering them so cheaply that I will happily buy all of the tickets then you're offering them too cheap and you can't really complain if I buy them. If it weren't for ticket-scalpers, die-hard f…

> If it weren't for ticket-scalpers, die-hard fans who are willing to pay extra to secure a place would have no option.

VIP tickets sold by the venue exist to solve the problem of "some fans might pay more than others to see the same show" and fans get extra value with their ticket purchase in the form of a VIP experience.

Tickets sold by scalpers don't have the added value beyond the value created by their artificial scarcity.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#54

Post by onion2k »

jstanley wrote: post #8

> The scourge of ticket bots and the immorality of the shady ticket scalpers using them is conventional wisdom I very much disagree. If I am willing to pay the asking price for tickets, I should be able to buy them. If you're offering them so cheaply that I will happily buy all of the tickets then you're offering them too cheap and you can't really complain if I buy them. If it weren't for ticket-scalpers, die-hard f…

With ticket scalping: the original seller sells all their tickets more quickly. The fans who want to see the gig the most get to see it, with less chance of tickets being made unavailable by people who don't want to see it as badly (i.e. don't want to pay as much money), and the ticket scalper makes a profit. Everyone's a winner.

Here's hoping a cabal of billionaires don't start applying this logic to things like food or houses.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#55

Post by jkoebler »

snarf21 wrote: post #50
simonsarris wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You reasoning is a pretty good example of why the median person should be very wary of anyone saying that free markets and their "efficiency" are a good thing, or will result in good outcomes for them. They will result in good outcomes for the richest, sure. We can agree to that. You are conflating die-hard fans with die-hard wealthy fans which is a little silly. Not all fans have the same marginal value of pocket ch…

Isn't this easily solved with a fan club that any member gets up to 2 tickets that are non transferable (physical printed tickets only via mail)? The benefit of being in the club is to getting access to these. Rich has a lot less to do it and then there are a lot less for the bots anyway. People are lazy and will always choose the easiest option. If the only way to get good seats and cheap tickets is a fan club (e.g.…

Scalpers join fan clubs and have people on the inside who can do name changes for them

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#56

Post by mrob »

rawTruthHurts wrote: post #24
jstanley wrote: post #8

> The scourge of ticket bots and the immorality of the shady ticket scalpers using them is conventional wisdom I very much disagree. If I am willing to pay the asking price for tickets, I should be able to buy them. If you're offering them so cheaply that I will happily buy all of the tickets then you're offering them too cheap and you can't really complain if I buy them. If it weren't for ticket-scalpers, die-hard f…

I completely agree. Only those with money should have the right to enjoy life. Or education. Or health services. Or their favourite bands, if that's the case.

Without education you accomplish much less than you otherwise would in life. Modern society is not sustainable without widespread education. Without health services your risk of death or disability increases. But if you can't see your favorite band live you substitute some other form of entertainment.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#57

Post by cb21 »

jkoebler wrote: post #6

I wrote this story and am happy to answer any questions you guys might have. Lots of information I ended up not using because the article was already incredibly long or I couldn't corroborate it (but believe it to be true from various interviews), etc.

Thanks for the article! I love going to concerts (actually I grabbed pre-sale tickets for Lady Gaga just last week) so I found it all super interesting.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#58

Post by rubber_duck »

knz wrote: post #36
rubber_duck wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Automated bots/teams of people buying many tickets purely for the sake of profit doesn't benefit anyone other than the scalpers. He just told you - it benefits people who want to pay more but would otherwise have to rely on luck to buy the tickets - this is the entire reason the system works.

> There is a middle ground of letting legitimate buyers purchase tickets and then selling them on the secondary market if they are unable to attend. And nothing stops those people from buying a ticket from someone who is no longer able to attend on StubHub. Bands aren't putting on a show so that their wealthiest fans can attend.

>And nothing stops those people from buying a ticket from someone who is no longer able to attend on StubHub.

And the difference between that and scalping to the buyer is ? If you can't bid on the price you're still relying on luck to get it which sucks if you want to pay more. So your argument was that only scalpers benefit - people who can now secure tickets at a markup also benefited.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#59

Post by ikeboy »

knodi123 wrote: post #39
jstanley wrote: post #8

> The scourge of ticket bots and the immorality of the shady ticket scalpers using them is conventional wisdom I very much disagree. If I am willing to pay the asking price for tickets, I should be able to buy them. If you're offering them so cheaply that I will happily buy all of the tickets then you're offering them too cheap and you can't really complain if I buy them. If it weren't for ticket-scalpers, die-hard f…

> If I am willing to pay the asking price for tickets, I should be able to buy them. If you're offering them so cheaply that I will happily buy all of the tickets then you're offering them too cheap and you can't really complain if I buy them. And if I'm an artist who wants to ensure that fans without a lot of money can see me? Should I be allowed to offer a concert where tickets cost 20% of market value, or should "…

>And if I'm an artist who wants to ensure that fans without a lot of money can see me?

Either run background checks on fans and only allow people without a lot of money to take those seats, or throw large enough events such that there's enough supply to meet the demand at your preferred price.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#60

Post by at-fates-hands »

tomtoise wrote: post #12
jstanley wrote: post #8

> The scourge of ticket bots and the immorality of the shady ticket scalpers using them is conventional wisdom I very much disagree. If I am willing to pay the asking price for tickets, I should be able to buy them. If you're offering them so cheaply that I will happily buy all of the tickets then you're offering them too cheap and you can't really complain if I buy them. If it weren't for ticket-scalpers, die-hard f…

> Everyone's a winner. Except perhaps those die-hard fans who do not have the extra money available to see what may be a once-in-a-lifetime show. Perhaps a more correct ending would be "Everyone who has enough disposable income is a winner."

>> Except perhaps those die-hard fans who do not have the extra money available to see what may be a once-in-a-lifetime show.

The problem with this logic is that you assume since the "die-hard" fan does not have the money, he will simply give up and be shut out of being able to go.

As someone who was, and still is a huge music fan, I always plan the gigs I want to go see around when I was getting paid and my budget. I was able to balance seeing fairly unknown bands in small venues before they got big (once saw Korn and Marilyn Manson open for Danzig. Or HedPE, System of a Down and Static-X open for Fear Factory) with the larger, more expensive shows like Red Hot Chili Peppers, Linkin Park, or RUSH.

Most of my friends who are also rabid fans will know when a band is coming and plan accordingly. The whole idea that "die-hard" fans are being shut out is nonsense. We plan, we plot, and we scheme to see the bands we want to. I even took a gig at a CD shop so I could go see bands for free. I didn't care how much I was getting paid because the perks of seeing a national act for free with two of my friends was payment enough.

To me a "die-hard" fan will find a way regardless. I would categorize more fair weather fans with the attitude you're conveying. If they get a ticket to a "must see" show, then cool, if not, well, it's not a huge deal to them.

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