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Self-Discipline Outdoes IQ in Predicting Academic Performance in Adolescents

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Re: Self-Discipline Outdoes IQ in Predicting Academic Performance in Adolescents

#11

Post by flatline »

HSO wrote: post #6

I wouldn't be surprised if this held true for particular subjects that are generally thought of as "hard" as well. My favorite is mathematics. I used to have a really tough time with maths and used to hate it. Then, the smartest friend I have (who coincidentally did his PhD in financial mathematics with Freddy Delbaen back then -- for those who don't know this area, that means he was really good) once made an offhand…

I just finished a course on integral calculus...one of my classmates said he put in 20-30 hrs/week and he ended up dropping the class - he just couldn't understand the problems and he was a terrible test taker. I put in a lot of work in the first month or so then the rest of the course sort of just sailed by. I guess my only point is, YMMV...

Re: Self-Discipline Outdoes IQ in Predicting Academic Performance in Adolescents

#12

Post by spamizbad »

flatline wrote: post #11
HSO wrote: post #6

I wouldn't be surprised if this held true for particular subjects that are generally thought of as "hard" as well. My favorite is mathematics. I used to have a really tough time with maths and used to hate it. Then, the smartest friend I have (who coincidentally did his PhD in financial mathematics with Freddy Delbaen back then -- for those who don't know this area, that means he was really good) once made an offhand…

I just finished a course on integral calculus...one of my classmates said he put in 20-30 hrs/week and he ended up dropping the class - he just couldn't understand the problems and he was a terrible test taker. I put in a lot of work in the first month or so then the rest of the course sort of just sailed by. I guess my only point is, YMMV...

If he struggled that much with integral calc the cause is likely a poor foundation in High-school level mathematics.

Re: Self-Discipline Outdoes IQ in Predicting Academic Performance in Adolescents

#13

Post by kylec »

flatline wrote: post #11
HSO wrote: post #6

I wouldn't be surprised if this held true for particular subjects that are generally thought of as "hard" as well. My favorite is mathematics. I used to have a really tough time with maths and used to hate it. Then, the smartest friend I have (who coincidentally did his PhD in financial mathematics with Freddy Delbaen back then -- for those who don't know this area, that means he was really good) once made an offhand…

I just finished a course on integral calculus...one of my classmates said he put in 20-30 hrs/week and he ended up dropping the class - he just couldn't understand the problems and he was a terrible test taker. I put in a lot of work in the first month or so then the rest of the course sort of just sailed by. I guess my only point is, YMMV...

Integral calculus is easy - it's all about calculation. Where math got hard for me was when the focus shifted from calculation to proof (abstract algebra, number theory, real analysis). I thought I could coast by with the same sort of intuitive understanding I had with calculus, but I was wrong and I didn't have the self discipline that was required to do well.

Re: Self-Discipline Outdoes IQ in Predicting Academic Performance in Adolescents

#14

Post by chegra »

kylec wrote: post #13
flatline wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just finished a course on integral calculus...one of my classmates said he put in 20-30 hrs/week and he ended up dropping the class - he just couldn't understand the problems and he was a terrible test taker. I put in a lot of work in the first month or so then the rest of the course sort of just sailed by. I guess my only point is, YMMV...

Integral calculus is easy - it's all about calculation. Where math got hard for me was when the focus shifted from calculation to proof (abstract algebra, number theory, real analysis). I thought I could coast by with the same sort of intuitive understanding I had with calculus, but I was wrong and I didn't have the self discipline that was required to do well.

With proof you have to do a whole host of them first. I remember, filling a book with proof. Eventually, a pattern will emerge and they would be easy. At first, I used to hate them but practise enough times and you would want them to show on the exams.

Re: Self-Discipline Outdoes IQ in Predicting Academic Performance in Adolescents

#15

Post by kellogs »

lawn wrote: post #4

I'm not surprised. For me school has always been about discipline and dedication and not about skill. The school adapts itself to a lower difficulty so that more will pass and they compensate by making it more cumbersome so that the skilled, but not so disciplined, will get bored and not perform as well. This was also my personal experience. I was pretty good at math but I never got any challanges so I just didn't do…

"they compensate by making it more cumbersome so that the skilled, but not so disciplined, will get bored and not perform as well"

I couldn't have put it better, that's exactly what I feel too! It would be so cool if the educational system were designed to help under-disciplined people to perform to their best rather than weed out the ones who can't adapt.

Re: Self-Discipline Outdoes IQ in Predicting Academic Performance in Adolescents

#16

Post by rauljara »

swah wrote: post #2

And if you are here reading this after telling yourself you really would code your ass off today, you already lost.

And if you posted on this thread after telling yourself you really would code your ass off today...

Seriously, though, sometimes taking short breaks can cause you to be more productive than just slogging through. Not all trips to the internet are procrastination. Sometimes you really do need to just stop coding for a few minutes. Though I imagine there are better ways to recharge your mental batteries than HN. HN just makes you think too much sometimes.

Re: Self-Discipline Outdoes IQ in Predicting Academic Performance in Adolescents

#17

Post by jergosh »

"compared with their more impulsive peers, highly self-disciplined eighth graders earned higher GPAs and achievement-test scores, were more likely to gain admission to a selective high school, had fewer school absences, spent more time on their homework, watched less television, and started their homework earlier in the day."

First has a lot to do with what is expected at school (wonder what the data looks for 3rd level education) and the rest is pretty obvious...

Re: Self-Discipline Outdoes IQ in Predicting Academic Performance in Adolescents

#18

Post by jgg »

lawn wrote: post #4

I'm not surprised. For me school has always been about discipline and dedication and not about skill. The school adapts itself to a lower difficulty so that more will pass and they compensate by making it more cumbersome so that the skilled, but not so disciplined, will get bored and not perform as well. This was also my personal experience. I was pretty good at math but I never got any challanges so I just didn't do…

>I'm a bit upset with this because I doubt that they could remember anything from those tests but I felt I could remember them for months.

On one Calculus test I had, I didn't study or do any of the homework and pulled a ~90% score. When talking to someone who got a perfect 100%, he casually informed me that he forgot how to integrate between tests. I was shocked to hear this, but apparently it's the norm.

Re: Self-Discipline Outdoes IQ in Predicting Academic Performance in Adolescents

#20

Post by thribbler »

tkahn6 wrote: post #3

This does not surprise me at all. Anyone with average intelligence can get good grades in high school - it's just a matter of how much time you're willing to devote to getting them. The trade-off comes in deciding whether you'd rather get good grades or spend time learning other things on your own. It comes down to how much you trust the educational system you're in to fully make use of your time and intelligence. I…

>spend time learning other things on your own

Hear Hear! And all learning is done on one's own, really.

IQ is, not to put too fine a point on it, bunk.

Grades are also bunk. They can never measure depth of knowledge, which is the thing that matters, intellectually speaking. Depth depends on connections formed with other areas of knowledge, which are unique to each student.

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