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Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

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Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#61

Post by amykhar »

alextheparrot wrote: post #59

Does anyone else consider immigration a significant part of US foreign policy? Wouldn't offering visas to "rising" countries allow us to pick off much of their best talent, thus boosting the US and lowering the other countries? The global power struggles of today, I believe, will be won by countries who can dictate the technology that refocuses which resources are needed.

That's fine if you're not hurting your current citizens. Pick off those talented people at a proper wage. Companies aren't seeking talent that American engineers don't have. They're seeking cheap labor.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#62

Post by shard972 »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #57
lazaroclapp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not theoretical, free-market niceties when you have lived abroad for 6 years. Or when your parents are both from different countries. Or when your grandparent immigrated out of the U.S. to live 2/3rds of his life in the country you were born in and never encountered this level of pushback. There is a lot to be said for making welfare systems work together with immigration. But putting "fellow citizens" above…

I have always found interesting that people try to chalk out freedom of labour movement as a "nicety, an ideological thing" - while I have to accept that Facebook, Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon can become rich selling to my people while the US is protectionist with the well-paid job positions in those companies. You can sell your shit to me and I can't sell my labour to you. Ok, at least pay taxes locally and fund…

I mean, it's not like your people are being forced to use and buy products from these companies. So why should the US be forced to take in workers from other countries?

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#63

Post by shard972 »

wdcgu wrote: post #31

As usual, these rants treat "Silicon Valley" as a single entity. http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2016-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx There are some companies that underpay, while other pay quite well. Conflating the two is like throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Even if companies are paying the same as local workers, there is still the issue of the employer having so much power over the worker.

Normally jobs are a two way relationship, with either party being able to back out if things are working out. With H1B's, the employee is a lot more tied down to the company.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#64

Post by alextheparrot »

amykhar wrote: post #61
alextheparrot wrote: post #59

Does anyone else consider immigration a significant part of US foreign policy? Wouldn't offering visas to "rising" countries allow us to pick off much of their best talent, thus boosting the US and lowering the other countries? The global power struggles of today, I believe, will be won by countries who can dictate the technology that refocuses which resources are needed.

That's fine if you're not hurting your current citizens. Pick off those talented people at a proper wage. Companies aren't seeking talent that American engineers don't have. They're seeking cheap labor.

US foreign policy often hurts citizens, it is done to play a longer game. While the relative degree may matter, I'm not convinced on general terms it hurting makes it bad policy, given the other factors that may be in play.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#65

Post by alextheparrot »

shard972 wrote: post #60
alextheparrot wrote: post #59

Does anyone else consider immigration a significant part of US foreign policy? Wouldn't offering visas to "rising" countries allow us to pick off much of their best talent, thus boosting the US and lowering the other countries? The global power struggles of today, I believe, will be won by countries who can dictate the technology that refocuses which resources are needed.

> Wouldn't offering visas to "rising" countries allow us to pick off much of their best talent, thus boosting the US and lowering the other countries? I haven't seen H1B visa's used like this in my personal experience. At the last company I worked for they were mostly used to fill our testing team with people from India. Maybe they were all guinness, the problem was all but one of them could speak/write english fluen…

I largely agree with both your observations and opinions.

The comment was in response to a lot of "citizens first, immigrants only if they don't hurt our current citizens at all" arguments here. By proposing that visas may be, or at least could be, a form of foreign policy I believe helps to dispute that point in general, highlighting higher goals than plugging talent shortages that may or may not exist.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#66

Post by winter_blue »

shard972 wrote: post #62
NetStrikeForce wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always found interesting that people try to chalk out freedom of labour movement as a "nicety, an ideological thing" - while I have to accept that Facebook, Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon can become rich selling to my people while the US is protectionist with the well-paid job positions in those companies. You can sell your shit to me and I can't sell my labour to you. Ok, at least pay taxes locally and fund…

I mean, it's not like your people are being forced to use and buy products from these companies. So why should the US be forced to take in workers from other countries?

> why should the US be forced

You've got it backwards. Nobody is forcing the US to take anyone. Instead, employers in the US are instead being forced to hire native workers, and are effectively being prohibited from hiring from the rest of the world. It's this prohibition that needs to be defended.

I'm an employer, and I want to hire a French software developer. I'm willing to pay him $160,000 a year. But now, immigration restrictionists are getting in my way and saying that I can't hire him. If I hire him disregarding the laws prohibiting me from doing so, I would get hit by heavy fines and might literally be thrown in jail. Immigration restrictionists effectively advocate for the use of state violence to block me from employing non-Americans.

Now this isn't some hypothetical story that I came up with. I work for a French company that has an office in New York, and we've tried to bring a Software Developer from our Paris office for two years now. For two years in a row, he lost the H-1B lottery both times. The L-1B visa didn't work out either. My company which is French-owned and French-based and has to deal with this stuff. It's this restrictionism that has got to be justified.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#68

Post by dukeluke »

ungzd wrote: post #67

Is it really bad? Usually immigrants anyway get much better wages than in their hometown and escape from repressive regimes.

Yes, it is bad. It lowers the wages of Americans and makes finding an entry level tech position for Americans a lot harder. The purpose of the H-1B visa program was to bring highly specialized workers to the US, not cheap labor.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#69

Post by [deleted] »

kelnos wrote: post #45
stupidcar wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're ignoring the fact the US already produces a surplus of skilled and qualified STEM professionals. Freedom of labor movement is a nice–to–have, but not some ideological priority that must be placed above all other considerations. The size of the pool of human capital is irrelevant if there simply aren't enough jobs on offer. The government of a country should be first and foremost advocates for, and protectors o…

> You're ignoring the fact the US already produces a surplus of skilled and qualified STEM professionals. That may be true, but we're hardly a homogeneous group. There certainly isn't a surplus of skilled and qualified professionals from my subgroup of STEM. And I suspect that's the one where most H-1B visa holders end up in. Not saying the system isn't abused: oh sweet jesus, it most certainly is. But throwing it ou…

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#70

Post by NetStrikeForce »

shard972 wrote: post #62
NetStrikeForce wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always found interesting that people try to chalk out freedom of labour movement as a "nicety, an ideological thing" - while I have to accept that Facebook, Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon can become rich selling to my people while the US is protectionist with the well-paid job positions in those companies. You can sell your shit to me and I can't sell my labour to you. Ok, at least pay taxes locally and fund…

I mean, it's not like your people are being forced to use and buy products from these companies. So why should the US be forced to take in workers from other countries?

I think you understood "free market" backwards mate. No one is forcing me to buy US or local for that matter, but demands are for those US companies to be "forced" to buy local labour.
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