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Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

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Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#21

The problem with suggesting that the salary bar be set at the median of the lifetime salary, is that it does mean closing the door to current international students in the U.S., and to recent graduates recruited from universities abroad. The minimum bar for an immigrant should not be that they are better than half the people already employed here in their field, regardless of their stage in life. And, of course, most…

You're ignoring the fact the US already produces a surplus of skilled and qualified STEM professionals. Freedom of labor movement is a nice–to–have, but not some ideological priority that must be placed above all other considerations. The size of the pool of human capital is irrelevant if there simply aren't enough jobs on offer.

The government of a country should be first and foremost advocates for, and protectors of, the welfare of its own citizens. If a large number of those citizens are being encouraged to accumulate massive debts gaining an education that them leaves them unable to find a job, then that is a social problem that needs a solution. And if the government can help the situation by putting reasonable restrictions on the number of foreign workers competing for those jobs, then they absolutely should do that.

I really do not understand how so many people came to view these kind of theoretical, free-market niceties as more important than the practical wellbeing of their fellow citizens, but it's an incredibly dangerous attitude. If you support free-markets and globalisation, then you should want them implemented in a way that doesn't cause major social damage that ends up creating hostility to them. Otherwise, you end up with the kinds of populist movements we're seeing now, which feed upon the resentments of people who've watched successive governments refuse to place their own citizen's welfare above that of an ideology that harms them.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you truly believe that H-1B should exist only for truly extraordinary talent Second to last paragraph: " Employers claim that they hire H-1Bs for rare skill sets or outstanding talent ― traits that they would need to pay a premium for on the open market. Yet current law requires only that they pay the average wage. Worse, it is the average wage within one of those four experience levels. Instead, we should repla…

Rare skillset or outstanding talent can be interpreted at different levels in so far as how strong an statement that is. As a percentage of the population, software engineers have a rare skillset, and there is no employment crisis in the field that requires protectionist measures to keep people with said skillset from mass unemployment. The system you are proposing would end with companies having to hire significantl…

I am not sure why those people can't be served by normal visas which don't tie you to your employer at risk of deportation for not agreeing to their every demand.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#24

The problem with suggesting that the salary bar be set at the median of the lifetime salary, is that it does mean closing the door to current international students in the U.S., and to recent graduates recruited from universities abroad. The minimum bar for an immigrant should not be that they are better than half the people already employed here in their field, regardless of their stage in life. And, of course, most…

You're ignoring the fact the US already produces a surplus of skilled and qualified STEM professionals. Freedom of labor movement is a nice–to–have, but not some ideological priority that must be placed above all other considerations. The size of the pool of human capital is irrelevant if there simply aren't enough jobs on offer. The government of a country should be first and foremost advocates for, and protectors o…

Why are people born inside the imaginary lines of my country more important to help than those born outside of it? Someone from Bangladesh or Mexico is not a fellow citizen of my country, but they are a fellow citizen of my world. Why should the smaller and more arbitrary geographical division come first?

You can talk about culture, but I'm sure I have more in common culturally with a phd student or entrepreneur in Dhaka than a Christian fundamentalist in Kansas.

I understand that there is a lot of complexity in these issues, but it's hard for me to see nationalism as anything more than a form of widely accepted bigotry.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#25

The problem with suggesting that the salary bar be set at the median of the lifetime salary, is that it does mean closing the door to current international students in the U.S., and to recent graduates recruited from universities abroad. The minimum bar for an immigrant should not be that they are better than half the people already employed here in their field, regardless of their stage in life. And, of course, most…

You're ignoring the fact the US already produces a surplus of skilled and qualified STEM professionals. Freedom of labor movement is a nice–to–have, but not some ideological priority that must be placed above all other considerations. The size of the pool of human capital is irrelevant if there simply aren't enough jobs on offer. The government of a country should be first and foremost advocates for, and protectors o…

They are not theoretical, free-market niceties when you have lived abroad for 6 years. Or when your parents are both from different countries. Or when your grandparent immigrated out of the U.S. to live 2/3rds of his life in the country you were born in and never encountered this level of pushback. There is a lot to be said for making welfare systems work together with immigration. But putting "fellow citizens" above everyone else is not an easy question for everyone (and yes, I advocate for immigration and non-discrimination for hiring in my country of origin too).

Also, acting like the STEM jobs in the U.S. exist independent of globalization is disingenuous. They exist because S.V. software is used across global markets, so if protectionism for labor is ok as long as it helps your citizens, then I assume the same is true for trade protectionism or Internet 'great firewalls'? The problem is, that way, we all end up significantly worse for it.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#26

The problem with suggesting that the salary bar be set at the median of the lifetime salary, is that it does mean closing the door to current international students in the U.S., and to recent graduates recruited from universities abroad. The minimum bar for an immigrant should not be that they are better than half the people already employed here in their field, regardless of their stage in life. And, of course, most…

You're ignoring the fact the US already produces a surplus of skilled and qualified STEM professionals. Freedom of labor movement is a nice–to–have, but not some ideological priority that must be placed above all other considerations. The size of the pool of human capital is irrelevant if there simply aren't enough jobs on offer. The government of a country should be first and foremost advocates for, and protectors o…

Not all STEM professionals are equal, which seems to be the assumptions of these arguments.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rare skillset or outstanding talent can be interpreted at different levels in so far as how strong an statement that is. As a percentage of the population, software engineers have a rare skillset, and there is no employment crisis in the field that requires protectionist measures to keep people with said skillset from mass unemployment. The system you are proposing would end with companies having to hire significantl…

I am not sure why those people can't be served by normal visas which don't tie you to your employer at risk of deportation for not agreeing to their every demand.

> I am not sure why those people can't be served by normal visas

What are the names of those "normal visas"?

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rare skillset or outstanding talent can be interpreted at different levels in so far as how strong an statement that is. As a percentage of the population, software engineers have a rare skillset, and there is no employment crisis in the field that requires protectionist measures to keep people with said skillset from mass unemployment. The system you are proposing would end with companies having to hire significantl…

I am not sure why those people can't be served by normal visas which don't tie you to your employer at risk of deportation for not agreeing to their every demand.

Which normal visas would those be? H-1B is the normal work visa for everyone not coming from Mexico or Canada.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#29

My co-workers raised a note that H1B no longer relevant so much for the purpose described in headline. It's much easier to bring workers on L visa - they have even less opportunity to skip jobs or aruge for a raise than H1B holders, and there's no lottery and no limits. Just bring as much people on L as possible. As far as I know, Microsoft did this with Canada long ago. They hire you and relocate to Canada, then aft…

Don't forget the TN visa. Those Canadians are stealing American jobs. Really surprised that everyone likes to complain about the H1B/L1 but not the TN visa.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#30

Feel like many think this is the only use of H-1B. They don't ever hear about how the best employees at Microsoft, Google, and Facebook are also H-1B's.

> Feel like many think this is the only use of H-1B. They don't ever hear about how the best employees at Microsoft, Google, and Facebook are also H-1B's. Because H-1B visa is broken. Just cause there's a good side to it doesn't mean we can ignore the broken parts. Take the good parts and fix the bad one. Worker exploitation is not going to help native workers nor helped international workers. > They don't ever hear…

> Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc.. have caught colluded in wages before.

Nitpick - if you meant the "no cold call agreement" case, the defendants were Adobe, Apple, Google, Intel, Intuit, Pixar, Lucasfilm and eBay. Microsoft was not accused.

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