Earlier quoted context omitted.
I intended that to refer to both child pornography and child sexual abuse, although I appreciate I could've been more clear there. And in any case, I don't think I strayed very far, if at all, into hyperbole, even taken verbatim. Child pornography may not be the same thing as child molestation, but it's still plenty vile nonetheless.
> Child pornography may not be the same thing as child molestation, but it's still plenty vile nonetheless. More hyperbole. You really think young cartoon characters conducting sexual acts, which is illegal child porn, is as vile as perfectly legal scat porn? Or is your claim once again hyperbolic because, a) it's not your sexual preference, and b) you assumed, wrongly, that everything classified as child porn is nec…
Man jailed 16 months, and counting, for refusing to decrypt hard drives
441–450 of 504 posts
Re: Man jailed 16 months, and counting, for refusing to decrypt hard drives
#442Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a counterintuitive result, and I would be very interested to learn more about it. Rather than sling accusations of pseudoscience and authoritarianism, will you cite some of these studies?
I'm surprised you think whatever intuitions you may have developed on such a complicated subject as human sexuality and neurology actually mean anything. Plenty of people with just as much confidence as you that ordinary porn was harmful were similarly surprised decades ago when rape and sexual assault rates continued to fall despite the continued spread of porn. Why would pedophilia be any different than any other s…
Re: Man jailed 16 months, and counting, for refusing to decrypt hard drives
#443Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's different because you can't verify the authenticity of the custom hand-rolled cipher. This is a request for the accused to produce the keys only, not to do the work of manually decoding.
Isn't the grandparent quote stating the opposite of what you've said here?
His case hinges on whether he can prove that the work necessary to decrypt the disks, which is understood to mean entering the keys which he remembers, is testimonial self-incrimination and thus illegal under the Fifth Amendment.
Believe it or not, most judges are aware of smartasses and are not required to accept "Well, I don't remember, and you can't prove that I do, so ha! You have to let me go now!" The evidence surely indicates that this man used his computer regularly, which necessarily required unlocking his disks, and that means that by all rational conclusions he is, or at least was, capable of complying with the order.
Until the court is fully convinced that he is no longer capable of complying, or until the order is dropped, modified, or stayed, Rawls will remain detained for his failure to comply.
Re: Man jailed 16 months, and counting, for refusing to decrypt hard drives
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
The difference is, one doesn't have to cooperate with a search warrant. The idea of encryption being a lock like on a locked door is ludicrous and downright dangerous. Using a fantasy metaphor in place of actual reality is incredibly misleading and outright manipulative. The difference between a lock and encryption is that all locks in the physical world can be broken by outside parties. If someone doesn't want to op…
It's not fantasy. Fantasy is a world where you can tell the police "I know how to open that thing that you have a lawful order to investigate, and you don't, so any crime of which I'm suspected is now uninvestigatable, nanny nanny boo boo". The analog with other difficult locks is just fine; the fact that these locks are so good that they are unbreakable doesn't really change anything about the accused's obligation t…
That's what's happening here. It has led to an extreme corruption of justice where a defendant's rights are violated until he testifies against himself (which also violates his rights, so a Catch-22 situation). He is compelled to testify against himself (5th). He was not given a speedy trial (6th). He was punished in a cruel and unusual manner with life imprisonment despite not being convicted (8th). He is guilty until proven innocent.
All because he refuses to talk. This particular defendant clearly does NOT have the right to remain silent. In which case, that must not be a right. In which case, the 5th amendment either doesn't exist or is being violated.
We don't even know if this guy has the password. We don't even know if there is any actual data on the drives at all. He hasn't been convicted of anything. Yet he's spending the rest of his life, potentially, in jail because he refuses to be coerced by the corrupt government or does not have the information they want.
Re: Man jailed 16 months, and counting, for refusing to decrypt hard drives
#445Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Child pornography may not be the same thing as child molestation, but it's still plenty vile nonetheless. More hyperbole. You really think young cartoon characters conducting sexual acts, which is illegal child porn, is as vile as perfectly legal scat porn? Or is your claim once again hyperbolic because, a) it's not your sexual preference, and b) you assumed, wrongly, that everything classified as child porn is nec…
Where have I said anything of the sort? For all the accusations of hyperbole you're throwing around, you sure do seem to be more inclined to answer the points I haven't made than to answer those I have.
You even said that my interpretation of your literal words was not far from your intent, and doubled-down on your claim that child porn is almost as vile as child molestation. I then pointed out that some cartoons are considered child porn, and contrasted that with legal porn that's also widely considered to be vile, then asked if you stand by your claim that underage cartoon sex is really more vile than this type of legal porn (which doesn't even touch on the issue of why vileness is a meaningful metric of legality, as opposed to something obviously meaningful like harm).
So I can't see how I'm arguing in bad faith.
Re: Man jailed 16 months, and counting, for refusing to decrypt hard drives
#446Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you need to cross a border, you will find that the border agents think they have the right to compel you to boot your laptop, including entering any secret or attaching any device required to do so. I doubt that they could ultimately stop you returning to your own country if you held out, but they could stop you leaving, and they could certainly make your life pretty miserable. In my opinion you'd be much better w…
There's nothing about TailsOS that could arouse suspicion if there's nothing persistent on it that could arouse suspicion, or draw more attention to you. TailsOS is strictly a utility like a wrench or a screwdriver. Providing you exit TailsOS properly and watch the screen as it's wiping the memory to ensure it has infact wiped. TailsOS can prove to be an innocuous O.S after you unload it from memory. They might ask q…
I think you misunderstand my suggestion. You have a windows install that you don't actually use for anything. This is because a windows install is a normal thing for someone to have. You can keep your usb booted, forensic OS but make sure you're running it on something that they've seen a million times before, not some sort of l33t uber laptop without a harddrive.
The point is to look normal.
Re: Man jailed 16 months, and counting, for refusing to decrypt hard drives
#447As expected on HN I am not surprised to see people defending one's right to privacy and encryption. However, what's the solution then ? If all the "bad guys" who distribute illegal material do so encrypted volumes and refuse to give up the decryption key then what do we do ? It's a different world now; the police can't just take a drill out and open the safe.
Re: Man jailed 16 months, and counting, for refusing to decrypt hard drives
#448Earlier quoted context omitted.
How's that different than "revenge fantasy" fiction? Slim chances of anything like that happening. Besides, there are such people in every generation. They just change what they target (after all it's about the control and the profit, not about particular victims. E.g. now they can afford to play it non-racist, since why should they care much about suppressing blacks in particular, when they can now fuck the whole po…
I don't know about such a fiction but I guess that would be it. If we are persistent and unforgetting, this might become a reality one day. We should find "such people" in every generation and make sure they don't have a chance to do such mistakes to pay for them later, but on the question of payment we should be adamant. The trick here is to not be conflict-averse and not be a slave of own wallet but to care about j…
Re: Man jailed 16 months, and counting, for refusing to decrypt hard drives
#449Earlier quoted context omitted.
>his failure was allegedly looking at child pornography FTFY It doesn't matter what they accuse him of, until they prove it, he's innocent.
He's innocent in court (and my non-lawyerly (aka worthless) sense says the fifth amendment favors him). But we're not a court, and our standard for speech shouldn't be "beyond a reasonable doubt". The parent poster was right. His failing was looking at child pornography.
Now, replace child pornography with any other thing. Would you question me saying that he'd been downloading that thing?
Re: Man jailed 16 months, and counting, for refusing to decrypt hard drives
#450Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not fantasy. Fantasy is a world where you can tell the police "I know how to open that thing that you have a lawful order to investigate, and you don't, so any crime of which I'm suspected is now uninvestigatable, nanny nanny boo boo". The analog with other difficult locks is just fine; the fact that these locks are so good that they are unbreakable doesn't really change anything about the accused's obligation t…
"The protection in the Fifth is to prevent a perverse system of coerced confessions, where innocent people can be placed on the stand and forced to falsely confess before the court." That's what's happening here. It has led to an extreme corruption of justice where a defendant's rights are violated until he testifies against himself (which also violates his rights, so a Catch-22 situation). He is compelled to testify…
The courts do not agree with that interpretation. Defendants and witnesses are required to comply with subpoenas and warrants and produce documentation on demand, unless they can satisfy the court that production of said documentation is potentially inculpatory and that providing it rises to the level of testimonial self-incrimination under the facts of the case. That's going to vary and the accused may win a lawsuit to confirm that that is indeed what's occurring in this case. At the moment, it's an unsettled question.
>He was not given a speedy trial (6th).
He hasn't been arraigned, so of course he can't be tried. He's been detained for contempt. If he wants a speedy trial, he can comply with the court order that allows the investigators to continue with his case, and he can go free in the mean time.
Perhaps contempt-of-court needs to be reworked such that indefinite detention under it is not allowed, but that's not a constitutional issue. Contact your representatives and let them know you want this law passed.
>He was punished in a cruel and unusual manner with life imprisonment despite not being convicted (8th).
He can end his detainment at any time by complying with the court order. He is willfully keeping himself imprisoned. He has not been sentenced and, theoretically, will be free to go once he complies with the court's order. It is very likely that he has chosen incarceration and a constitutional challenge because he prefers the remote possibility that he may win this challenge to the near-certainty of a felony sex crimes conviction if he complies.
>He is guilty until proven innocent.
It may be that some type of check on extended contempt detainments is appropriate. For example, convening a jury to evaluate the accused's ability to comply every 90 days may be wise.
But practically speaking, he is not guilty; he is being detained because he refuses to comply with a court order. If the court is unable to enforce its orders any time a person says "Sorry, I don't remember how to do that", its authority will vanish.
I understand the contention is that decrypting disks is testimonial self-incrimination. That's the issue before the court, and for whatever reason (which could probably be looked up), the courts hearing that issue declined to stay the original order while the issue pends.
I personally do not find that argument convincing, as the contents of the disk need not, and indeed cannot, be altered by the accused to plant a "false confession" merely by unlocking them. Any evidence revealed by the decryption would've been as it was before any threat or incentive was issued.
Courts have ruled on a variety of occasions that complying with requests to furnish evidence which may be inculpatory does not by itself rise to the level of testimonial self-incrimination. Imagine the fallout from a world where the courts did indeed rule that the defendant was not required to comply with any subpoena, warrant, or order that may reveal criminal behavior. Our system would fall apart right away.
The 5th is not designed to allow people to destroy or hide evidence. It's designed to prevent inquisitions, where a person's guilt is determined based on the linguistic trickery and/or the direct threats made by an inquisitor, instead of an evidentiary standard that must be proven. The 5th amendment still allows for confessions and it still allows the police to require accused individuals to furnish evidence and documentation, it just provides a protection to check the prosecutor's incentive to force false confessions.
>All because he refuses to talk. This particular defendant clearly does NOT have the right to remain silent.
There is no absolute "right to remain silent" in the United States. There is only the right to refrain from testimonial self-incrimination. Judges can and do regularly order persons to provide legitimate answers to questions, orders, and subpoenas if they cannot satisfactorily demonstrate how responding to them could reasonably jeopardize this right.
>We don't even know if this guy has the password.
True, there's no way to know that with certainty. However, there is a way to know beyond reasonable doubt. His regular use of the computer necessarily required him to unlock the disks. It's clear that at the time the order was issued, he knew how to do it.
Perhaps he can make the case that sixteen months after the fact, he is no longer able to recall the passphrases, and maybe that's his strategy; at some point, as time wears on, this will have to be considered credible.