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Replacing butter with vegetable oils does not cut heart disease risk (2016)

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Re: Replacing butter with vegetable oils does not cut heart disease risk (2016)

#111

Post by Xdafjgneoiwe »

awjr wrote: post #98
Xdafjgneoiwe wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think you can generalize from Tibetans or other populations. That is because those rural populations often have a much healthier diet than the standard american diet. More vegetables, more fiber, less animal products in general. To say that this obviously shows that butter cannot be that bad is just not true. You are right in one point: If the only thing you eat is butter with your veggies then you do not ha…

I think we focus on diet over environment too much. It isn't just what you eat but how you get around that is vital to tackling the cardiovascular epidemic. The only evidence that I currently have available is the Netherlands. The only western country to have a reducing obesity index, by 2030, predicted to be 8.5% down from 10%. Their diet is a very typical western diet. However their transport system and their urban…

You are right that being active is also very important for cardiovascular health. However, you cannot underestimate the importance of diet as it too is a daily reoccurent factor for health.

Re: Replacing butter with vegetable oils does not cut heart disease risk (2016)

#112

Post by awjr »

_0w8t wrote: post #109
awjr wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we focus on diet over environment too much. It isn't just what you eat but how you get around that is vital to tackling the cardiovascular epidemic. The only evidence that I currently have available is the Netherlands. The only western country to have a reducing obesity index, by 2030, predicted to be 8.5% down from 10%. Their diet is a very typical western diet. However their transport system and their urban…

In Netherlands it is common to have rather cold temperatures in houses even if people can afford to pay for warmth. And cold requires body to spend much more energy that is coming directly from burning body fat unless one shivering from cold. In fact if one wants to loose like 10 kilos quickly, just climb to Everest. Most of that weight will be spent on body heating, not muscular work. That also explains why butter d…

That's an interesting one I had not considered. Culturally living in a cold environment and not wrapping up warm will have an effect on calorie burn.

Re: Replacing butter with vegetable oils does not cut heart disease risk (2016)

#113

Post by Xdafjgneoiwe »

achamayou wrote: post #108
Xdafjgneoiwe wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think you can generalize from Tibetans or other populations. That is because those rural populations often have a much healthier diet than the standard american diet. More vegetables, more fiber, less animal products in general. To say that this obviously shows that butter cannot be that bad is just not true. You are right in one point: If the only thing you eat is butter with your veggies then you do not ha…

Actually the typical Tibetan diet is heavy on grain, meat and dairy.

Are tibetans generally heart-healthy, though? I took that for granted but did not actually fact check the original poster. I think he just wanted to give an example for a rural, healthy eating society. I do not know if that was true in the past or is now, though.

Re: Replacing butter with vegetable oils does not cut heart disease risk (2016)

#114

Post by coldtea »

Xdafjgneoiwe wrote: post #94
coldtea wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is irrelevant, as it only speaks of total risk. If butter was bad, it would be bad for them too, in a controlled study against not butter eating Tibetans, regardless if they all run 10k miles per day and eat only vegetables.

If the sample size was large enough and you could factor our everything else, then yes. I don't think anything like this was done, though. What exactly is your point, then?

That the lifestyle difference is irrelevant since any study that measures the impact of a food in health should control for it.

Re: Replacing butter with vegetable oils does not cut heart disease risk (2016)

#115

Post by thatcat »

zurn wrote: post #90
thatcat wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most atmospheric methane produced photo oxidizes to CO2 after about 20 years though. CH4 + 2O2 -photons---> C02 + 2H20 I'm not sure what time scale of heat per mass equivalencies are based on in your example; there is approximately 28 : 1 heat/mass eq. ratio at the 100 year scale, during which time the heating effect decreases exponentially with the decrease in methane concentration[0]. After 100 years the ratio is a…

20 years is a very relevant timescale since we need to prevent the tipping point of melting artcitc methane deposits and loss of reflection from permafrost areas.

Yea, I agree. Cows also live about 20 years, so even not breeding cows wouldn't solve this problem. The morality of eating butter is kind of a moot point when all the production mechanisms are already in place and they aren't flexible.

A possible solution would be methane fixing bacteria (methanotrophs) in the guts of cows or in the ocean where > 75% of the current concentration atmospheric methane originates. The ocean also contains a significant amount in solid form that gets released as temps rise. [0]

[0]http://www.washington.edu/news/2014/12/09/warmer-pacific-oce...

Re: Replacing butter with vegetable oils does not cut heart disease risk (2016)

#116

Post by mitchtbaum »

I've stopped eating oil, and it's helped me significantly. So here are a few articles about no oil diets:

http://www.nomeatathlete.com/oil/

http://engine2diet.com/the-daily-beet/no-oil/

http://www.theglowingfridge.com/top-3-reasons-to-reduce-or-e...

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/restaurants/oil-free-plant-base...

Re: Replacing butter with vegetable oils does not cut heart disease risk (2016)

#117

Post by dublinclontarf »

brotherAB wrote: post #46
nmerouze wrote: post #33

Cholesterol isn't bad, it's in fact very important for the production of testosterone among other things. The problem comes from the inability to use it because the body isn't healthy. Polyunsaturated fats will produce bad byproducts when it breaks down and over time makes the body sick. We crucially lack magnesium and potassium in our diet. There are tons of studies showing the benefits of magnesium against heart di…

The grey matter in your brain is mostly cholesterol. I've personally lost 10 pounds in 10 days eating a high fat, low carb diet, with light excercise about 3 days a week. Kerrygold is my #1 choice for butter, because it comes from grass-fed cows.

Ah Kerrygold, the tastiest butter on the planet.

It's not just that the cows are grass-fed, it's to do with the lushness of the grass they eat.

Super green (why? because it rains soooo much!), which introduces more carotene into the cows diet.

Compare the color of Kerrygold to regular butter, it's WAAAAY more yellow.

Re: Replacing butter with vegetable oils does not cut heart disease risk (2016)

#118

Post by Xdafjgneoiwe »

zenon wrote: post #99
Xdafjgneoiwe wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is: Butter contains 3 % trans fats. And even keto fanatics admit that trans fats are extremely unhealthy. You could say it doesn't have a huge impact and that might be true because it's only a small part of the diet. However, any amount of trans fat is dangerous. The body's enzymes can hardly remove any trans fat build up in the arteries.

Trans fat from partially hydrogenated vegetable oil is (mostly) Elaidic acid, which is probably harmful. Butter contains other trans fats, like Vaccenic acid. We don't know much about the long-term health effects of Vaccenic acid.

"Published data suggest that all fatty acids with a double bond in the trans configuration raise the ratio of plasma LDL to HDL cholesterol."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2830458/

Re: Replacing butter with vegetable oils does not cut heart disease risk (2016)

#119

Post by awjr »

Xdafjgneoiwe wrote: post #111
awjr wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we focus on diet over environment too much. It isn't just what you eat but how you get around that is vital to tackling the cardiovascular epidemic. The only evidence that I currently have available is the Netherlands. The only western country to have a reducing obesity index, by 2030, predicted to be 8.5% down from 10%. Their diet is a very typical western diet. However their transport system and their urban…

You are right that being active is also very important for cardiovascular health. However, you cannot underestimate the importance of diet as it too is a daily reoccurent factor for health.

Agreed but when you look at the Dutch diet, it really is not good. I mean sprinkles on toast really is not food. However the assumption is that, you as a child, will get to school by walking or cycling and you will get around for most of your childhood independently by bicycle.

The Dutch are unusually active in general, and this may well be down to their environment encouraging being active from birth.

I'm not saying diet is not a factor (1 in 10 are obese), but, the UK is currently at 27% (1 in 4), the worst in Europe heading for 35% (1 in 3) obese by 2030 with a similar diet profile to the Dutch, indicating about 25% of obesity will be down to environment. The US is even worse. Both the US and UK have an extremely car dependent design philosophy. One that the US is rapidly tackling through road diets. However planning is still a step behind at the moment.

I'm not disputing diet is vital, but if you have to get into a car to do a 0-5 mile journey because the "roads are too dangerous to cycle" or you won't let your kids walk/cycle to school 2 miles away you end up with an obesity problem no matter how good the population's diet.

Re: Replacing butter with vegetable oils does not cut heart disease risk (2016)

#120

Post by mlindner »

Xdafjgneoiwe wrote: post #62
jelliclesfarm wrote: post #18

There is nothing wrong with butter. Oils can become rancid. Clarified butter or ghee is even better as they have longer shelf life.

There is: Butter contains 3 % trans fats. And even keto fanatics admit that trans fats are extremely unhealthy. You could say it doesn't have a huge impact and that might be true because it's only a small part of the diet. However, any amount of trans fat is dangerous. The body's enzymes can hardly remove any trans fat build up in the arteries.

> Butter contains 3 % trans fats.

_No_ it does not. Trans fats are a completely artificial creation originally thought to avoid weight gain because it's specifically _not_ butter. They don't exist naturally in any butter.

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