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A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

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Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See this -^ ? It's a new pseudonymous account. Unless your social network has some kind of insane policy where they only allow you to have a single identity you can use that kind of feature to compartmentalize your activities. Combine that with a phone that lets you have multiple users where you use one for banal activity which you can then show to Big Brother when he comes knocking. And others for anything important…

Let me start by saying I don't begrudge your info hygiene habits at all, this isn't an attack against you. But I've seen a few suggestions lately on building tools to circumvent these awful policies. What we need to be doing is vehemently protesting these policies and rejecting them completely. If we start building tools to deny information when someone Has physical access to your unlocked device then we normalize th…

If protesting these things worked, we'd never have border searches in the first place. Nobody wants to be searched.

Ultimately most people just simply do not place any value on their privacy.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#332

There are at least four facts that should cause stuff like this to be discontinued immediately: — It is not only possible to acquire electronic data after crossing a checkpoint but there are many ways of doing so . — There is no possible way for the contents of a phone to be a threat to TRANSPORTATION security, which is theoretically the only reason someone should care when you’re crossing a border, boarding a plane,…

> — Even if something “suspicious” is found, that is not guilt and no charges can be laid so what is the point!? I'm not defending this highly disturbing practice, but the point is that it's a political test. If they find anything politically disturbing on the phone, they can refuse you entry.

It would also seem to assist with parallel construction, along with the added bonus of security theater to support future agency funding.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#333
post #180

Let it happen to Thiel or Musk, see how quickly the procedure will be reversed.

Musk would like to sit down for coffee with the border guards who are detaining him and try to steer them onto a wiser course. Which will totally work super well any minute now! All he has to do is show he supports them and is willing to work with them and they'll certainly change how they operate!

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#334
post #14
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is zero indication this had anything to do with the ban, he was not held detained , but his phone was. I think it's part of his job, and the verge is creating straw men

You and I have very different definitions of detained then. 40 minutes? So everyone around him was detained in detaining room, with sleeping cots, but he wasn't? Please explain that one? And ITAR has fuck all to do with reentering the country.

Also, the time was longer than 40 minutes. He waited that long before talking with someone following detention. He then was forced to give up his phone/password and waited another 30 minutes while it was searched.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Donald Trump is undoubtedly homophobic, I think he's just pointing out that for the country to be voting for him, to an extent a proportion of them must agree. And I disagree about you saying the EU just wishes to become the United States of Europe. In almost no sense does anyone give up their "sovereignty" by joining the EU. Every country still creates it's own laws, governs how it wishes to and has full control ove…

Damnit...I hate to look like I'm defending Trump, but he was also the only Republican to let an open homosexual speak on the convention stage (Thiel). He's self-serving and contradictory (see Pence), but it's not nearly as open and shut as suggested. Do you have any specific reasons he's homophobic?

who needs a reason, when you have faith.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#336
post #14
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is zero indication this had anything to do with the ban, he was not held detained , but his phone was. I think it's part of his job, and the verge is creating straw men

You and I have very different definitions of detained then. 40 minutes? So everyone around him was detained in detaining room, with sleeping cots, but he wasn't? Please explain that one? And ITAR has fuck all to do with reentering the country.

[deleted]

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are talking about two different groups. As in: will three letter agency type people have the incentive and the desire to expand their capabilities, independent of xenophobia and racism? Yes, absolutely. Do xenophobia and racism play a significant part on why large swats of the population are going along with this? Also, yes. A U.S. where most Americans don't fear foreigners from any part of the world is o…

But this is also ignoring that there are very real reasons this is happening. Within the last couple of years we had the Bataclan, Nice, Orlando, etc, all directly from Islamic terror. Does that mean Muslims should be discriminated against? Obviously not. However, this is a very blunt way of people trying to protect themselves (even if it's not effective or overreaching). To wave that off as "racism" isn't really fai…

We also had significantly more deaths from things like school shootings and other violence not related to terrorism from Islamist groups, and yet we are pulling out funds for counter-extremism from all causes not related to Islamic terrorism (say, white-supremacist terrorism). By the numbers, the current counter-terrorism policies are an over-reaction, poorly thought out and unfairly target an enormous population that doesn't seem to pose in expectation a more significant risk than others:

http://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/27/14412420/terrorism-muslim... : "The study found that only 46 Muslim Americans (defined as “Muslims who lived in the US for an extended period”) were linked to violent extremism at home or abroad in 2016. The total Muslim American population is 3.3 million."

and, from https://sites.duke.edu/tcths/files/2017/01/Kurzman_Muslim-Am... : "The 54 fatalities caused by Muslim-American extremists in 2016 brought the total since 9/11 to 123. More than 240,000 Americans were murdered over the same period."

So, to prevent 46 or so crimes, affecting 54 or so people (say 300 if you think there are large numbers of wounded), we are de facto abrogating the rights of 3.3 million people, plus visitors. Nevermind that terrorism represents only 0.05% of violent crime, that violent crime itself is at its lowest in decades and that we never felt the need to become a surveillance state over said amount of crime. The only reason why people think it reasonable to do so now is that they associate Muslim with terrorist at a visceral irrational level, not because it makes sound logical sense. Hence, racism and xenophobia is a perfectly reasonable explanation.

Also keep in mind that, over time, treating any group better both at home and abroad reduces incidence of terrorism from that group. But the point is that the current incidence itself is not anywhere near the point where putting millions under surveillance is worth it.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#338
post #180

Let it happen to Thiel or Musk, see how quickly the procedure will be reversed.

Sitting congressmen were put on the no-fly list. They were removed, but the rules were not changed.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/20/lewis.watchlis...

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Broader anti-racism and anti-racist-media action is needed, because otherwise this kind of arbitrary brutal border policy will win votes. This is an issue much bigger than race and as soon as we stop compartmentalizing it into that it will be better for us all. You turn it into another about race thing and people will tune out. You make people realize they are at risk no matter who they are and they might pay attenti…

The problem is, the reason it does win votes, and the reason a lot of people want "law and order" and "tough on crime", is because they reason it won't apply to them, but to "those people". What is "those people" defined by in their minds, at least to a first a approximation before they consciously reason about it? Race. Now, they might think in terms of it being for thugs and terrorists, instead of black people and…

>The problem is, the reason it does win votes, and the reason a lot of people want "law and order" and "tough on crime", is because they reason it won't apply to them, but to "those people". What is "those people" defined by in their minds, at least to a first a approximation before they consciously reason about it? Race.

Well, race or nationality. I don't think Trump voters think American citizens will be subjected to authoritarian measures, or should be. They think their in-group is safe.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#340
post #155
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, can you tell me what bad experiences EU passport holders have, or fear to have, at UK airports?

Currently, when an EU citizen enters UK from the Heathrow Airport we can just scan our passports on the machine and get through. Usually there would be a nice lady to assist you if you are having trouble with the scanning. Usually there isn't even other personnel around. I never encountered any checks or questioning. But then again, the British tend to be very civil and I can't imagine getting a treatment similar to…

I was held up when I traveled to the UK years ago when I was on a work sabbatical. I came over on a one way ticket with a plan to visit old friends and travel around. I was not allowed to enter until I managed to produce bank information showing that I had enough funds to cover my trip.
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