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A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

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Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#201

Post by morgante »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #152
makecheck wrote: post #129

There are at least four facts that should cause stuff like this to be discontinued immediately: — It is not only possible to acquire electronic data after crossing a checkpoint but there are many ways of doing so . — There is no possible way for the contents of a phone to be a threat to TRANSPORTATION security, which is theoretically the only reason someone should care when you’re crossing a border, boarding a plane,…

> — Even if something “suspicious” is found, that is not guilt and no charges can be laid so what is the point!? I'm not defending this highly disturbing practice, but the point is that it's a political test. If they find anything politically disturbing on the phone, they can refuse you entry.

> If they find anything politically disturbing on the phone, they can refuse you entry.

No they can't. Refusing to allow a US citizen to (ever) re-enter the country isn't allowed. At worst they can detain you.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#202

Post by pandaman »

tn13 wrote: post #178
jacquesm wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The bad guys are often minorities. I've observed this pattern: 'bad guy' is part of another group? That whole group is bad. 'bad guy' is part of the group of the person speaking: That's just an individual rotten apple, but it does not say anything about all of us.

Obviously. It all boils down to which group is in power and who is powerful. Minorities are going to get a fag end here. For example I see very little talk of illegals from Canada or Europe who are in USA. But authorities will only talk about Mexicans painting them as some kind of gangsters and criminals always. Indians or Chinese aren't that active in organized crime but their education and high skill is portrayed a…

Do you think that, perhaps, the fact that all the Canadian gangs keep it under the radar while Latino and Black gangs do all the "represent" game with leaving disfigured bodies, tagging cities, hanging around streets wearing gang colors etc is relevant? I am sure that Canadian cartels and gangs are just as dangerous, pushing all the contraband maple syrup and making our kids addicted to sugar, but, somehow, they figured out the PR game and keep the news of their kidnappings, executions and drive-bys out of sight.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#203

Post by k-mcgrady »

Jonnax wrote: post #10

Their point about how other countries will take the US's stance as a cue is somewhat scary. If you try and cross any border it will be relinquishing access to all accounts. I'm assuming email also comes along with 'social media', since communication is by its definition social. So how do you protect yourself? I think just going with "Don't have any social media" isn't a good answer because the relationship that child…

>> Their point about how other countries will take the US's stance as a cue is somewhat scary.

I don't see this happening, in Europe at least. It seems like a clear violation of the right to freedom of expression and right to family and private life so shouldn't be possible for any of the 47 members of the Council of Europe (who are bound by the ECHR).

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#204

Post by danyim »

tn13 wrote: post #101

This is really sad. As an immigrant I always thought this was coming. I never fly on a muslim airlines like Etihad to Turkish even though they are more convenient, I do not accept friend requests from muslims people on LinkedIN and Facebook.

How does that help? Aren't you passing judgment here?

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#205

Post by safeaim »

For all of you guys recommending using fake accounts, do remember that right before christmas, Obama administration signed in new rules[1], giving NSA leeway to share their collected data with 16 other agencies, including DHS, which CBP falls under. So you may get caught if you try to pull these shenanigans off. US agencies are no strangers to mission creep when it come's to sharing data, as seen recently in this article from Intercept on how FBI is building a national watchlist for companies that want to have realtime updates on whether their employees have committed any crimes while employed. [2]

Two quotes from the NYT article that I feel are important to have in the back of your head when you plan your fake accounts:

Now, other intelligence agencies will be able to search directly through raw repositories of communications intercepted by the N.S.A. and then apply such rules for “minimizing” privacy intrusions.

But Patrick Toomey, a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union, called the move an erosion of rules intended to protect the privacy of Americans when their messages are caught by the N.S.A.’s powerful global collection methods. He noted that domestic internet data was often routed or stored abroad, where it may get vacuumed up without court oversight.

Let's say CBP get's a tool in a couple of months that let's their border agent search up any passenger through the NSA raw data. That search may then produce your real accounts. Let's say they do this before questioning you, and you then provide them with your fake accounts, that will not look good.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/us/politics/nsa-gets-more... [2]https://theintercept.com/2017/02/04/the-fbi-is-building-a-na...

EDIT: Removed the part about felony, as that was blatantly wrong.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#206

Post by biafra »

What is the worst that can happen to a non US citizen, who is not producing the passwords they demand? Being send back immediately and all belongings seized? Or only devices they do not get the decryption passwords for? Detainment for how long? Being charged with what?

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#207

Post by skriticos2 »

Jonnax wrote: post #10

Their point about how other countries will take the US's stance as a cue is somewhat scary. If you try and cross any border it will be relinquishing access to all accounts. I'm assuming email also comes along with 'social media', since communication is by its definition social. So how do you protect yourself? I think just going with "Don't have any social media" isn't a good answer because the relationship that child…

Within Europe (ps: as a European citizen) you can go anywhere with a personal identification card (no passport) and there are no border controls (when walking or driving). There isn't even a border, just a sign: welcome to $country (ps: and maybe local driving instructions). Say what you will about the EU, but this has been a great achievement. I can go through airport security between two EU countries and security will just scan my ID and take a picture in an automated booth and I'm good to go (did exactly that several times). It's like 30 seconds to pass the security gate when entering and no personal interaction.

I'm really having difficulty to understand how the United States got from the cradle of freedom (let's say after the civil war, the colonization was not so prestigious) to the capricious and homophobic entity that it is shaping up to be.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#208

Post by leakybit »

cylinder wrote: post #130
pveierland wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how do you protect yourself? I don't believe any of the technical solutions mentioned in this thread; using a dumb phone, multiple identities and/or false data for plausible deniability, wiping the phone before passing the border, is viable for a larger number of people. They also fail once a border agent insists on accessing an email account for which they know you have the password. The only protection is thro…

Just don't give them any passwords or unlock anything if you are a US citizen. Let them try to detain a US citizen indefinitely for it.

Exactly. It's your constitutional right as a US citizen to tell any Law Enforcement agent to go fuck themselves.

1. They need a warrant to search your phone if you don't voluntary give them access.

2. Even if they have a warrant, you can plead 5th and just not give them the pin.

The American way is all about not trusting the government, believing in conspiracy theories, and stocking up on ammo.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#209

Post by varjag »

Sebguer wrote: post #93
DanBC wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They detained the former Prime Minister of Norway, a very white guy, because he'd been to Iran for a conference.

They actually detained him because he didn't have a Visa to be in the US, which is a requirement for anyone, even those who would not normally need a visa, who has been to Iran and a select few other countries in the last few years. That isn't to say the entire situation wasn't bullshit, just that it wasn't the case of the Borders agent randomly stopping him for being in Iran.

Not sure what you mean by that. Norwegian nationals are covered by U.S. Visa Waiver program, they don't need a visa.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#210

Post by biafra »

BoppreH wrote: post #183
Syzygies wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how do you protect yourself? We need a "kill code" on secured devices: A separate password that silently resets the device to a saved state suggesting mild use and offering nothing of substance. Alarm systems have these: A code you only enter under duress, that looks like a regular disarm code, but silently summons help. So where are Apple and Google on something similar for our digital privacy?

IANAL, but I'm pretty sure that's destruction of evidence.

Only if you're accused of a crime, right? Which is not the case here. They just want to search your data. Although if you're not a citizen they will probably not let you enter the country.
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