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A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

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Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#181

Post by leakybit »

mrtksn wrote: post #155
waqf wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, can you tell me what bad experiences EU passport holders have, or fear to have, at UK airports?

Currently, when an EU citizen enters UK from the Heathrow Airport we can just scan our passports on the machine and get through. Usually there would be a nice lady to assist you if you are having trouble with the scanning. Usually there isn't even other personnel around. I never encountered any checks or questioning. But then again, the British tend to be very civil and I can't imagine getting a treatment similar to…

Yes, but that's inside the EU. If you were traveling between States in the US, you would only need your drivers license and there's no going through customs.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#183

Post by BoppreH »

Syzygies wrote: post #169
Jonnax wrote: post #10

Their point about how other countries will take the US's stance as a cue is somewhat scary. If you try and cross any border it will be relinquishing access to all accounts. I'm assuming email also comes along with 'social media', since communication is by its definition social. So how do you protect yourself? I think just going with "Don't have any social media" isn't a good answer because the relationship that child…

> So how do you protect yourself? We need a "kill code" on secured devices: A separate password that silently resets the device to a saved state suggesting mild use and offering nothing of substance. Alarm systems have these: A code you only enter under duress, that looks like a regular disarm code, but silently summons help. So where are Apple and Google on something similar for our digital privacy?

IANAL, but I'm pretty sure that's destruction of evidence.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#184

Post by mjmsmith »

joshuaheard wrote: post #53

I don't see what this has to do with Trump's travel restrictions, other than it coincidentally happened at the same time. If the author is trying to imply this correlation is causation, there is no evidence in the article. That being said, no American should have to have his phone searched at the border, even with the stated border exceptions to the Fourth Amendment.

Prepare for a lot more "coincidences".

"The end result of this, though, is that our opponents, the media, and the whole world will soon see, as we begin to take further actions, that the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial, and will not be questioned."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-transcript-febru...

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#185

Post by basseq »

coldcode wrote: post #134
Jonnax wrote: post #10

Their point about how other countries will take the US's stance as a cue is somewhat scary. If you try and cross any border it will be relinquishing access to all accounts. I'm assuming email also comes along with 'social media', since communication is by its definition social. So how do you protect yourself? I think just going with "Don't have any social media" isn't a good answer because the relationship that child…

The result of stories like this will be to chill visiting from other countries (destroying tourism in the country) and likely result in the same treatment by other countries to American citizens. I can't understand why the people who decide these policies think they are harmless.

Stories like this have been in the news for many years. Here's one from 2014:

http://www.dailydot.com/layer8/supreme-court-phone-warrant-u...

And an EFF post from 2011:

https://www.eff.org/wp/defending-privacy-us-border-guide-tra...

It's also not just the US; here's one from Canada:

https://www.cnet.com/news/man-charged-for-refusing-to-give-u...

Finally, it's not a policy; the the general differences in due process at the border, as upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court (1997, Ramsey v. United States).

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#186

Post by mrtksn »

leakybit wrote: post #181
mrtksn wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently, when an EU citizen enters UK from the Heathrow Airport we can just scan our passports on the machine and get through. Usually there would be a nice lady to assist you if you are having trouble with the scanning. Usually there isn't even other personnel around. I never encountered any checks or questioning. But then again, the British tend to be very civil and I can't imagine getting a treatment similar to…

Yes, but that's inside the EU. If you were traveling between States in the US, you would only need your drivers license and there's no going through customs.

UK is different from the rest of the EU, where is pretty much the same as your example of the US. On the Schengen area there is no border controls as the physical borders don't exist and to travel in EU all you need is your national ID card if you don't want to bother with a passport.

I prefer the passport, I think you can't use the ID card on the automated UK border check.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#187

Post by batbomb »

pjc50 wrote: post #12
batbomb wrote: post #4

Conceivably, it's quite possible he had information which is subject to ITAR regulations, including data about sensors, mirrors. At the very least, he probably had sensor vendor specifications which are trade secrets and often covered under NDAs.

Are you implying they searched him for ITAR violations on the way back into the country? I'm confused.

No, not sure why I'm being downvoted. I was making an observation based on similar experience (with respect to sensors) that he potentially had sensitive information in emails he was forced to divulge.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#188

Post by [deleted] »

pjc50 wrote: post #12
batbomb wrote: post #4

Conceivably, it's quite possible he had information which is subject to ITAR regulations, including data about sensors, mirrors. At the very least, he probably had sensor vendor specifications which are trade secrets and often covered under NDAs.

Are you implying they searched him for ITAR violations on the way back into the country? I'm confused.

[deleted]

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#189

Post by jakewins »

Syzygies wrote: post #169
Jonnax wrote: post #10

Their point about how other countries will take the US's stance as a cue is somewhat scary. If you try and cross any border it will be relinquishing access to all accounts. I'm assuming email also comes along with 'social media', since communication is by its definition social. So how do you protect yourself? I think just going with "Don't have any social media" isn't a good answer because the relationship that child…

> So how do you protect yourself? We need a "kill code" on secured devices: A separate password that silently resets the device to a saved state suggesting mild use and offering nothing of substance. Alarm systems have these: A code you only enter under duress, that looks like a regular disarm code, but silently summons help. So where are Apple and Google on something similar for our digital privacy?

Unless this wipes the device, it serves no use. They don't want your pin to browse through the phone - CBP policy is to take a full disk image, which would not work without the real pin as I understand it. This was the case in the OP article as well - CBP took a full copy of the phone.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#190

Post by ptaipale »

yardie wrote: post #7
batbomb wrote: post #4

Conceivably, it's quite possible he had information which is subject to ITAR regulations, including data about sensors, mirrors. At the very least, he probably had sensor vendor specifications which are trade secrets and often covered under NDAs.

Did you bother to read the article? He was detained coming into the country. Just call a spade a spade. Trump wrote a shitty, racist executive order and people from all walks of life who happen to have one thing in common, a Muslim sounding name, are caught up in it.

This issue has nothing to do with Trump's executive order. The Verge does a neat job of confusing the two - I believe intentionally - but the rule that devices can be searched at the border is much older.

http://www.dailydot.com/layer8/supreme-court-phone-warrant-u...

This is not Trump, Obama or even Bush; the US Supreme Court decision is from 1997.

Then there is that questioning about social media accounts. That also isn't by Trump administration, it was Obama, last year.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/foreign-travelers-soci...

Sure, call a spade a spade, but spade is not trump now. (Is this rubber bridge or what?)

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