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A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

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Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#161

Post by mirimir »

Jonnax wrote: post #10

Their point about how other countries will take the US's stance as a cue is somewhat scary. If you try and cross any border it will be relinquishing access to all accounts. I'm assuming email also comes along with 'social media', since communication is by its definition social. So how do you protect yourself? I think just going with "Don't have any social media" isn't a good answer because the relationship that child…

> So how do you protect yourself?

Have all expected social media, with expected contacts (family, friends, colleagues, etc) and activity. But carry disposable stuff, because you can't trust it after it's been taken for inspection. If asked, just say they you're worried about theft ;) Or if you're on business, that it's your employer's policy. Which it should be.

For anything that you want kept private, be very careful to compartmentalize it from your meatspace identity.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#163

Post by devoply »

pveierland wrote: post #74
Jonnax wrote: post #10

Their point about how other countries will take the US's stance as a cue is somewhat scary. If you try and cross any border it will be relinquishing access to all accounts. I'm assuming email also comes along with 'social media', since communication is by its definition social. So how do you protect yourself? I think just going with "Don't have any social media" isn't a good answer because the relationship that child…

> So how do you protect yourself? I don't believe any of the technical solutions mentioned in this thread; using a dumb phone, multiple identities and/or false data for plausible deniability, wiping the phone before passing the border, is viable for a larger number of people. They also fail once a border agent insists on accessing an email account for which they know you have the password. The only protection is thro…

> So how do you protect yourself?

"Sorry, sir, I use a password keeper and left the password file at home. I do not have any passwords with me."

That's not a lie, and I would love for them to explain to the judge if they did ever choose to detain you as to how this is not a valid and legal excuse and non-cooperation in any way.

And if you are in doubt about saying something like this, actually use a password keeper, it's a good security practice.

Further, do not bring any electronic device with you.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#164

Post by cylinder »

virmundi wrote: post #2

As a white man, I'm a bit concerned about coming back into my own country. The only social media accounts I have are here and reddit. Will the guards at the gate accept that I don't have a Facebook or twitter account?

What does you being a white man have to do with anything?

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#165

Post by privong »

makecheck wrote: post #129

There are at least four facts that should cause stuff like this to be discontinued immediately: — It is not only possible to acquire electronic data after crossing a checkpoint but there are many ways of doing so . — There is no possible way for the contents of a phone to be a threat to TRANSPORTATION security, which is theoretically the only reason someone should care when you’re crossing a border, boarding a plane,…

> — ... threat to TRANSPORTATION security, which is theoretically the only reason someone should care when you’re crossing a border, boarding a plane, etc.

This is not a fact. Transportation security is not the reason border security exists. I think warrantless devices searches at borders should be illegal and I feel they are unconstitutional, but it's not true that border security boils down to only transportation security.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#166

Post by pjc50 »

devoply wrote: post #163
pveierland wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how do you protect yourself? I don't believe any of the technical solutions mentioned in this thread; using a dumb phone, multiple identities and/or false data for plausible deniability, wiping the phone before passing the border, is viable for a larger number of people. They also fail once a border agent insists on accessing an email account for which they know you have the password. The only protection is thro…

> So how do you protect yourself? "Sorry, sir, I use a password keeper and left the password file at home. I do not have any passwords with me." That's not a lie, and I would love for them to explain to the judge if they did ever choose to detain you as to how this is not a valid and legal excuse and non-cooperation in any way. And if you are in doubt about saying something like this, actually use a password keeper,…

Meanwhile on HN: "man jailed indefinitely for not decrypting hard drives": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13629728

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#167

Post by devoply »

pjc50 wrote: post #166
devoply wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how do you protect yourself? "Sorry, sir, I use a password keeper and left the password file at home. I do not have any passwords with me." That's not a lie, and I would love for them to explain to the judge if they did ever choose to detain you as to how this is not a valid and legal excuse and non-cooperation in any way. And if you are in doubt about saying something like this, actually use a password keeper,…

Meanwhile on HN: "man jailed indefinitely for not decrypting hard drives": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13629728

That's a different issue. When a court orders you to do something, then they would tell you to go back home and get the passwords or allow you the ability to do that. It's not reasonable for border security to expect you to carry your passwords with you at all time for all the services you use. It's a security risk to you, from third parties which might want to steal your data. Like for instance robbers that might force you to divulge your banking information at gun point.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#168

Post by wfunction »

cylinder wrote: post #130
pveierland wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how do you protect yourself? I don't believe any of the technical solutions mentioned in this thread; using a dumb phone, multiple identities and/or false data for plausible deniability, wiping the phone before passing the border, is viable for a larger number of people. They also fail once a border agent insists on accessing an email account for which they know you have the password. The only protection is thro…

Just don't give them any passwords or unlock anything if you are a US citizen. Let them try to detain a US citizen indefinitely for it.

Wasn't this guy a US citizen and didn't he still feel too scared to do this?

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#169

Post by Syzygies »

Jonnax wrote: post #10

Their point about how other countries will take the US's stance as a cue is somewhat scary. If you try and cross any border it will be relinquishing access to all accounts. I'm assuming email also comes along with 'social media', since communication is by its definition social. So how do you protect yourself? I think just going with "Don't have any social media" isn't a good answer because the relationship that child…

> So how do you protect yourself?

We need a "kill code" on secured devices: A separate password that silently resets the device to a saved state suggesting mild use and offering nothing of substance.

Alarm systems have these: A code you only enter under duress, that looks like a regular disarm code, but silently summons help. So where are Apple and Google on something similar for our digital privacy?

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