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Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

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Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#131

Post by xtiansimon »

jernfrost wrote: post #16

Does anyone have some examples of the practical problems they experience using Linux, which can't easily be solved in any other way than going to Windows? It just seems odd to me given my good experience switching my fairly computer illiterate parents over to Linux previously. To be fair they presently use Mac, but I found the Linux switch a great advantage initially as I ended up with much less tech support dealing…

When I read the quote, "highest possible compatibility", I recalled the problems I had in my Microsoft-dominant office after I shared some files I edited at home using libre-office. No one was ever prevented from working on the files I saved, but my xls exports from libre-office were annoyingly affected.

I wonder if it's not just the sort of annecdote between techies and non-techies which makes the difference. I think a non-techie will ascribe too much weight to their user-experience (a file doesn't display the same when sharing files) and conclude the file is somehow corrupt or unreliable.

At best, I suspect office workers, whose work is absolutely and entirely within the realm of email, text docs and spreadsheets, don't have the patience to deal with these irreularities.

Or, at worst, in a hard-driving efficiency oriented workplace minor inconveniences add up. I tend to favor CSV to xls to begin with, but this clearly adds additional steps when I utilize functions which can only be saved natively.

For myself, I'm inured to these inconveniences from web and software development and ignore the efficency costs in some office-task-contexts (txt, csv, email) because I'm already committed to working with specific workflows.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#132

Post by mnadkvlb »

srazzaque wrote: post #38
dopeboy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinkpad x250 user here. When I dock with one monitor, my screen will occasionally freeze forcing me to reboot.

What OS are you using? I'm on an x260, I had issues on Ubuntu 14 and 16, but since moving to Fedora Workstation 25 I've had an extremely pleasant experience from a hardware/docking point of view.

Fedora has changed the game for me as well. I am a very happy user so far. Although sometimes i see some notifications about a software crash somewhere. I really enjoy my time on Gnome3, there are very few annoyances as compared to windows/osx. Although i feel osx is way more polished in terms of gestures/ui etc. windows had been an absolute nightmare since windows8.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#133

Post by fhackenberger »

sveme wrote: post #80
microcolonel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily enough, after 2004, MS moved their German HQ to Münich.

Indeed, they moved five kilometers from Unterschleißheim, a Munich suburb, to the city itself.

Well exactly that makes all the difference. Local taxes now go to Munich instead of Unter...

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#134

Post by sbuttgereit »

jimnotgym wrote: post #124
sbuttgereit wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only write simple letters and, while I do actual accounting work in Excel which is just a little more than simple lists, I'm not using Excel as a database either... as I use databases for that (i.e. don't ask me how to do a VLOOKUP). Even in these simple tasks, MS Office is simply superior in terms of function and productivity if you are performing those simple tasks frequently enough. Could I get by with LibreOffi…

I actually agree that my accounts team would be more productive with Excel. But for the other 99% of users?

I disagree with your percentages and I wouldn't read my comment as only applying to the accounting team. I was an IT manager (and now business owner) doing budgeting, while that is/involves accounting, I am far away from being an accountant (or accounting clerk). Anyone doing even relatively trivial work in these products on a regular basis will benefit from the greater polish in the MS products compared to LibreOffice; again Google may be the logical and viable competitor in a casual-use, business scenario, but not LibreOffice.

Also, for those that are part of the teams of these managers and that have to collaborate with those that can gain direct advantage from the MS Office products, the MS Office/LibreOffice compatibility is simply quirky. It's not so bad if you're simply consuming the content, format isn't essential, and you're not contributing edits and such, but if format is essential or you are contributing/editing... again, the price of the license is not expensive given the productivity loss of people futzing with output due to incomplete compatibility. Finally, those in the office are more likely to already be familiar with MS operating systems and products. Even on the Mac I believe MS Office is still dominant in the office suite space. The productivity hit during training for a new UX vs. just paying the license is again, not supportive of using LibreOffice in any serious business context.

It is my opinion, so take it for what it's worth, that many will argue for the likes of LibreOffice on philosophical grounds rather than on the basis of the economics or product features/functions. And, in order to make their case, they nonetheless feel they have to rely on utilitarian arguments rather than on the merits of their root philosophical commitment. I don't think that's a useful strategy for that interest group when it's apparent that the value for money is actually there compared to the alternatives. I don't want to say that @jimnotgym is in this camp: I don't know; but I do see a similar commitment and line of reasoning from those I know to be.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#135

Post by vetinari »

simooooo wrote: post #105
vetinari wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VBA: LibreOffice can run Python macros. Granted, the rewrite from VBA to Python is necessary, but the possibility is there and in the long term, Python is much nicer to work with than VBA. AD: Have a look into FreeIPA. It is Active Directory equivalent for Linux and Unix systems (but not Group Policy). Centralized updates are done using Spacewalk/Satellite. Old stuff: that's the thing with old stuff. Going forward, t…

Having to rewrite any macros for any reason is a no go. You may as well have just stopped there.

Depends on the company. Some have no problem replacing it with something else, some do.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#136

Post by tracker1 »

yuhong wrote: post #41
digi_owl wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For MS, home users have been a "total cost of ownership" element in their b2b sales pitch. With home users familiar with basic MS software usage from home, MS can argue that businesses do not have to sped as much on training new employees if said businesses use MS products.

But I think they make relatively little in eg Windows revenue compared to corporate sales, which shows even today.

I think this is especially true today, given the reduced desktop/laptop sales in the home space, and MS's free upgrades from v7+ to win10. I think that offset was in favor of getting a smaller support base as well as the advertising channel for office365 (which annoys me, not the product, the win10 ads), same for edge browser.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#137

Post by tracker1 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #90
bayesian_horse wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a bribe when Microsoft is offering substantial cost reductions and tax revenue.

You would think Microsoft would fear the precedent. Attention Governments: Go deploy Linux on your desktops and Microsoft will appear tendering huge sacks of cash. Tell your friends. Don't let them leave with a dime.

It's not like switching off of windows is without its' own costs... Just IT staff retraining alone is huge, let alone the increased staff demands during transition. I'm not saying it isn't worth it, but switching to free software isn't entirely free.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#138

Post by tracker1 »

jstewartmobile wrote: post #22
jernfrost wrote: post #16

Does anyone have some examples of the practical problems they experience using Linux, which can't easily be solved in any other way than going to Windows? It just seems odd to me given my good experience switching my fairly computer illiterate parents over to Linux previously. To be fair they presently use Mac, but I found the Linux switch a great advantage initially as I ended up with much less tech support dealing…

I've moved places from 0% Linux to around 70% Linux, but the obstacles on the road to 100% in non-tech companies are tough: - Office VBA: OpenOffice is good enough for people who just make docs and spreadsheets, but some of the more savvy folk (usually in finance and engineering) use MS Office VBA as a development platform. OpenOffice just doesn't cut it for them. - Old stuff: Critical sensors, HVAC systems, fuel man…

+1 on VBA... I don't care so much for it, but I've seen some truly amazing and impressive feats in Excel + VBA. And while I'm sure it could be done with Python in LO, the rewrite for a lot of people would be limiting.

That said, I'm surprised they wouldn't try to support Office via Wine for those users that needed it. Also, for information exchange, the defaults for LO changed to MS Office formats for a given organization... though that still has some issues.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#139

Post by tracker1 »

ensiferum wrote: post #86
Eridrus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an Ubuntu dev box for GPGPU computing, the UI sometimes completely freezes. Maybe it's NVIDIA's drivers. I've also noticed that some software that has automatic updates doesn't automatically update by default (Chrome? Firefox? I can't remember right now). In 2014, dual monitors didn't work by default and I had to find some command to put in my startup scripts. Maybe this is better now, but that wasn't that lon…

If you do GPU computing you can obviously expect your UI to freeze. Consumer level GPU's don't have (generally) interruptible behaviour, so the scheduling is between command buffer submissions and the same GPU is used to run your desktop and display server. So if you have a cuda kernel that runs for a long time for example everything else is blocked. Even worse if you have an infinite loop in your kernel ;)

Dunno... I manage to use nvenc for transcodes in windows without the UI freezing. I had similar issues with multiple monitors the last I tried... off server my htpc runs ubuntu, and I swear at least once a month I consider switching it back to windows (gigabyte brix hardware, all intel, like nuc), and the hdmi audio driver via intel/ubuntu is a consistent source of pain.

I love it for server-side workloads headless... but UI on linux still isn't nearly as consistent as it is on even windows, let alone mac.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#140

Post by tracker1 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #70
barrkel wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never had a good experience docking Linux laptops to a dock with multiple monitors attached. The behaviour changes from only lighting up one monitor to hard lockups on docking or suspending or something else, depending on kernel version and whim. Randomly the keyboard attached to the dock doesn't initialize and I need to unplug and replug. Unreliable docking is IMO an excellent reason not to use Linux on lapto…

To be fare it's pretty rubbish on Windows as well, in particular if you have different resolutions on each screen. I have to reboot at least twice to get everything working.

I find that mac tends to do the best in terms of connecting/disconnecting external monitors. If only Apple would bless a decent dock design.
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