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Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

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Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#101

Post by Const-me »

_0ffh wrote: post #100
nisa wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you can read about the topic in Germany is that the switch had a lot of ideology behind it and after more than 13 years people are still unhappy. You have to consider this is an administration of one of the largest cities in Germany with lot's of custom processes and tools. Also workers there vary from their IT background and I guess most are not power users. Their approach was basically eliminate Windows everyw…

"more or less forced them to use this" Well, but that's how it works, isn't it? I wish I could go to an employer and say "Please remove that horrible MS Office 2013 from my computer, it is a steaming pile of orc manure, and I will not be forced to use it!", but that's just not how companies (or bureaucracies) work.

Depends on the company.

On one of my previous jobs my employer wanted to give me a macbook pro.

My view of OSX and Apple in general is very close to your view of MS Office 2013. I told them “let me try virtualization first”, inserted more RAM to my own Windows laptop, and used VmWare virtual machine for iOS development for the next couple of years.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#102

Post by _0ffh »

Const-me wrote: post #101
_0ffh wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"more or less forced them to use this" Well, but that's how it works, isn't it? I wish I could go to an employer and say "Please remove that horrible MS Office 2013 from my computer, it is a steaming pile of orc manure, and I will not be forced to use it!", but that's just not how companies (or bureaucracies) work.

Depends on the company. On one of my previous jobs my employer wanted to give me a macbook pro. My view of OSX and Apple in general is very close to your view of MS Office 2013. I told them “let me try virtualization first”, inserted more RAM to my own Windows laptop, and used VmWare virtual machine for iOS development for the next couple of years.

Good on you! :)

My main customer insists all work be done on a company computer, using only company-approved software, installed by company admins. And don't even think about desecrating the machine by inserting a non-company USB stick!

Which is, admittedly, quite good from a security standpoint.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#103

Post by Const-me »

_0ffh wrote: post #102
Const-me wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the company. On one of my previous jobs my employer wanted to give me a macbook pro. My view of OSX and Apple in general is very close to your view of MS Office 2013. I told them “let me try virtualization first”, inserted more RAM to my own Windows laptop, and used VmWare virtual machine for iOS development for the next couple of years.

Good on you! :) My main customer insists all work be done on a company computer, using only company-approved software, installed by company admins. And don't even think about desecrating the machine by inserting a non-company USB stick! Which is, admittedly, quite good from a security standpoint.

The level of bureaucracy varies greatly across companies. That company that allowed me to use my own hardware was a very small and privately held.

And even for larger companies with more bureaucracy, developers who do native code development often need to be local administrators on their PCs. To do my job, very often I need the permissions to install and upgrade software, debug stuff, install system services…

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#104

Post by _0ffh »

_0ffh wrote: post #102
Const-me wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the company. On one of my previous jobs my employer wanted to give me a macbook pro. My view of OSX and Apple in general is very close to your view of MS Office 2013. I told them “let me try virtualization first”, inserted more RAM to my own Windows laptop, and used VmWare virtual machine for iOS development for the next couple of years.

Good on you! :) My main customer insists all work be done on a company computer, using only company-approved software, installed by company admins. And don't even think about desecrating the machine by inserting a non-company USB stick! Which is, admittedly, quite good from a security standpoint.

[This should be one level down, but last comment from Const-me has no reply button.]

Well I also do some native code development.

That's why I have been given a tool that grants me limited time local SU privileges, given I enter at least 3 words in the field for "reason", and a valid cost center ID. I kid you not: It seems that executing a piece of code that grants me time limited local SU privileges leads to some company-internal financial flow to the IT department!

Edit: Installing s/w, btw, is usually done by opening a ticket with IT. If the required s/w is approved by IT, it will be queued for installation in the company's own s/w and configuration management tool chain in a few hours.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#105

Post by simooooo »

vetinari wrote: post #96
jstewartmobile wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've moved places from 0% Linux to around 70% Linux, but the obstacles on the road to 100% in non-tech companies are tough: - Office VBA: OpenOffice is good enough for people who just make docs and spreadsheets, but some of the more savvy folk (usually in finance and engineering) use MS Office VBA as a development platform. OpenOffice just doesn't cut it for them. - Old stuff: Critical sensors, HVAC systems, fuel man…

VBA: LibreOffice can run Python macros. Granted, the rewrite from VBA to Python is necessary, but the possibility is there and in the long term, Python is much nicer to work with than VBA. AD: Have a look into FreeIPA. It is Active Directory equivalent for Linux and Unix systems (but not Group Policy). Centralized updates are done using Spacewalk/Satellite. Old stuff: that's the thing with old stuff. Going forward, t…

Having to rewrite any macros for any reason is a no go. You may as well have just stopped there.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#106

Post by Const-me »

_0ffh wrote: post #104
_0ffh wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good on you! :) My main customer insists all work be done on a company computer, using only company-approved software, installed by company admins. And don't even think about desecrating the machine by inserting a non-company USB stick! Which is, admittedly, quite good from a security standpoint.

[This should be one level down, but last comment from Const-me has no reply button.] Well I also do some native code development. That's why I have been given a tool that grants me limited time local SU privileges, given I enter at least 3 words in the field for "reason", and a valid cost center ID. I kid you not: It seems that executing a piece of code that grants me time limited local SU privileges leads to some co…

Apparently, this message board gives commenters a couple of minutes to correct their comment. That’s why the “Reply” link only appears after some time.

About your administrator tool, yeah, that sucks.

I once worked in a company where the managers were paranoid about us leaking the source code of the game we developed. We all had 2 PCs, one for development, another one for the Internet, two physically-separate local networks, a one-way network share to copy stuff (read-write from the online LAN, read-only from the offline LAN), and a KVM switches so we only needed a single display + keyboard.

It was very inconvenient, e.g. unable to copy-paste stuff from stackoverflow.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#107

Post by dan_quixote »

nisa wrote: post #58
jernfrost wrote: post #16

Does anyone have some examples of the practical problems they experience using Linux, which can't easily be solved in any other way than going to Windows? It just seems odd to me given my good experience switching my fairly computer illiterate parents over to Linux previously. To be fair they presently use Mac, but I found the Linux switch a great advantage initially as I ended up with much less tech support dealing…

What you can read about the topic in Germany is that the switch had a lot of ideology behind it and after more than 13 years people are still unhappy. You have to consider this is an administration of one of the largest cities in Germany with lot's of custom processes and tools. Also workers there vary from their IT background and I guess most are not power users. Their approach was basically eliminate Windows everyw…

"Linux is more or less a wild garden of different solutions"

Exactly my experience. I use Windows at work (lots of .Net) and Linux on side projects (Python mostly). When I get into a bind on Windows, the solution is typically a Google search and couple clicks away. On Linux, I find the Google search results often return a plethora of similar solutions each branching with every distro and major version change. This means I'm often sorting through similar (but not exact) issues on forums and trying them out one by one and then cleaning up a mess of packages when it doesn't work out.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#108

Post by madez »

dukeluke wrote: post #99
bayesian_horse wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all fairness, there is hardly anything to be done about it. You just can't come up with a full MS Office replacement fast enough to be relevant. Short of completely dismantling Microsoft, or even seizing their assets by governments (two options I don't approve of), I don't see a way to break that monopoly as long as this kind of Office Software is relevant.

Exactly. An industry with a high barrier to entry is prone to becoming a monopoly.

This is why I think governments should fund libre alternative projects substantially and long-term. It is a matter of national interest.

LibreOffice Calc is missing features that are required by many users? The government should pay for it to be developed.

The ironic thing is that it is not even expensive to break this monopoly. So many countries share this interest in breaking the monopoly.

Why the EU spends billions to protect farmers but is not willing to spend millions to finish and maintain a nearly workable independent software infrastructure is beyond me.

Most politicians are old and most old people don't understand computers, the internet and it's consequences. They don't get what is at stake. I still hope that some day people will get elected in Europe that understand theses issues.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#109

Post by johannes1234321 »

sveme wrote: post #79
Merem wrote: post #8

Hm.. "At the time the report was released, the FSFE questioned why Accenture was commissioned to co-author a report assessing the use of Microsoft software, when the consultancy runs a joint venture with Microsoft called Avanade, which helps businesses implement Microsoft technologies. For its part, Accenture said it has an "independent view of the technology landscape". "At the time Munich began the move to LiMux in…

> More recently, Microsoft last year moved its German company headquarters to Munich." To be fair, the headquarters were in Unterschleißheim before, a suburb of Munich just 5kms from the new location.

Still the corporate tax (Unternehmensteuer) is now paid in Munich, which brings income to the municipality.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#110

Post by johannes1234321 »

jernfrost wrote: post #16

Does anyone have some examples of the practical problems they experience using Linux, which can't easily be solved in any other way than going to Windows? It just seems odd to me given my good experience switching my fairly computer illiterate parents over to Linux previously. To be fair they presently use Mac, but I found the Linux switch a great advantage initially as I ended up with much less tech support dealing…

Random example, aside from the Microsoft Office-incompatibilites: For producing a passport they have to use software by the federal agency which talks to a fingerprint reader. The municipality has no choice what is used there.
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