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Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

story.californiasunday.com

121–130 of 209 posts

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#121
This read made me respect the cruise workers who have made my vacations so good over the years.

About 13 years ago I took my first cruise, and from that point forward, about yearly or more, I cruise (though it's been two years since my last). I prefer Royal Caribbean (and Carnival is low on my list, though I've cruised with them many times). I always joke that it's the perfect vacation for geek decompression: it's on a ship where getting in contact with me is very difficult and expensive. Internet is expensive and only somewhat works on board. You don't have to think much -- very little upfront planning is required -- and there's a lot of time spent being left alone with your thoughts. It's very uncomfortable, at first, having to wait in lines without being able to pull out your smart phone and be distracted by Facebook/Reddit/Twitter, but after a day of it, you're forced into a form of relaxation that's missing from life these days.

The biggest reason I love cruising is the staff. Reading an article like this, you'd expect the staff to appear unhappy or otherwise be less than stellar. And while this is anecdata, at best, in the 15 or so cruises I've taken, I've not only never encountered a member of staff that had a bad attitude, I've never encountered a member of staff that was willing to ride an elevator with me without smiling and asking how my vacation was going. It's been impossible for me to find a member of staff who appears, at all, to not be having fun, even though we know full well that they're very underpaid and treated poorly by the western standards that almost all of their guests come from. I've stayed in high-class hotels in specialty suites for work and haven't experienced the quality of staff that I've received staying in an interior, windowless state-room in a small ship. This very personal interaction, with unbelievable attention to detail[0], is why I keep cruising.

These men and women not only work hard under poor conditions, they do so with a work ethic that you'd be hard pressed to find in the best paying jobs in the US. Part of this was pointed out in the article -- in a lot of cases, this is the best job they can get to support their family back home. My wife and I are very extroverted and a ship filled with people who, at worst, are pretending to want to get to know you and make your vacation better is a guarantee that we're going to make friends (genuine or not, though I've never gotten the sense that it was anything but genuine). We got to know a few members of maintenance staff (one of them broke several rules[1] to show us parts of the ship that were off limits, including crew quarters, pre-9/11). These folks know the best places to visit on the islands and where to go to get goods and services inexpensively[2]. One point that was made is if you want to reward a member of staff, cash is king and conceal cash tips from view. They do everything they can to make extra money on the side (and I chuckled because our guy was "a Christian who rented DVDs" and DVD players though I doubt it was the same guy from the article). On one of the cruises we took, we were told that the mandatory tips that are included in your bill (it wasn't always this way) are pooled and your room steward/waiter aren't going to be rewarded directly from any extra generosity you offer[3].

[0] My daughter once worried that the towel animals were not comfortable sleeping in the room because they were placed on the covers -- this was said to us within earshot of the room steward. The next time we arrived in our stateroom, the towel animal was snuggled into the bed with its head on the pillow. Seriously.

[1] We were told that many of these rules can be broken without consequences if they're being broken at the wishes of the guest.

[2] We ended up on a tour on St. Thomas, paid for with a ten dollar bill for the two of us, that was filled with Royal Caribbean customers who had dropped $55/ticket for the same tour. We were told, wait until the afternoon and show up when they're loading customers on. Someone will be standing outside selling off the rest of the seats. Our "bus" was half-empty, to boot. In another case, we were pointed in the direction of a restaurant off the beaten path, filled with locals, where we were fed two large meals with appetizers and bottomless drinks for about $7.50 and it was the best food and drink we'd had off-ship that week.

[3] We learned some more disturbing things, as well. Casual sex is rampant. We were told of several stories that made the lower decks sound like they have a frat house/orgy atmosphere (this is something I've heard from folks who work at Disney and other resorts).

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newsflash: Life sucks anywhere when you're poor and uneducated. And abundant evidence indicates that (most) corporations will do everything within their power to take advantage of this fact, unless very strongly regulated.

Not trying to start a capitalism war, but would an Earned Income Tax Credit be a more viable alternative to higher minimum wages? I've not done the leg work, but the IRS has a lot more info to help determine who's making how much that could help make the EITC even out unequal pay.

I'm not really on top of the various policy debates, actually. What's important is not to be distracted by this idea that "life sucks, and you can't really do anything about it -- so just keep your head down and look after yourself." Being as this is not only exactly how the powers-that-be want you to see things; it's entirely integral to their strategy of keeping things the way they are.

In fact, they even have a name for this strategy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#123
post #106
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This was in western Europe. Most western Europe has socialized medicine. Was health insurance as essential as in the USA?

Germany doesn't, for example. You have private ensurance companies and you have to chose one. When things go bad, you bet the insurance company won't be on your side. It's all ok if you have a good job (IT or otherwise) that pays for the best, but for poorer people it sucks.

I don't mind Japan's system. You pay monthly to the government (about 10% of your income for a married couple with a child) then the government pays 70% of your medical bill out of that, no questions asked.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost every country.

GDP per capita in the Philippines is ~$220/mo. For someone working on a cruise ship to make 2x to 8x that and have a substantial portion of their living expenses covered is not at all "terrible" by their home country's standards, IMO.

You can't use generic statistics to obtain significant insight in to people's lives: those on minor incomes are probably dependent / semi self-sufficient / agrarian / fishing / unbanked, so simply do not appear to have or need much money. In addition, barter and sharing are still widely practiced amongst agrarian communities.

For some perspective, in a report from recent (last 2 months) research that I read this morning, the very lowest household income amongst Myanmar migrant workers (largely factory workers) interviewed in Thailand was almost exactly this figure (7kTHB), whereas 2-5x this figure (~20-35kTHB) was common.

Similarly, relocating Chinese villagers I met last month reported being given 290元 (~$42)/head/month + lifetime generous monthly rice/oil allowance + initial bulk hardship payment + free housing when relocated to facilitate a new hydropower project. A family of four Chinese farmers in this situation essentially receive this income forever without the need to work at all.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#125
post #106
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This was in western Europe. Most western Europe has socialized medicine. Was health insurance as essential as in the USA?

Germany doesn't, for example. You have private ensurance companies and you have to chose one. When things go bad, you bet the insurance company won't be on your side. It's all ok if you have a good job (IT or otherwise) that pays for the best, but for poorer people it sucks.

> Germany doesn't, for example. You have private ensurance companies and you have to chose one.

What? No. In Germany you have public health insurance and private health insurance.

Private is only an option if you make over ~55,000€ or are self employed. Of course there are many private insurance companies happy to sell you insurance. They're in it to make money. Just be prepared for the premiums to increase as you get older.

Public health insurance [0] is available from several different providers, all which basically offer the same thing: you get sick and go the doctor, you are treated without charge.

> When things go bad, you bet the insurance company won't be on your side.

I have never been seriously ill, but for all the minor things (flu, infection) I just went to the doctor and gave them my health card.

I do know people who have been seriously I'll, requiring hospitalisation, and I haven't heard many complaints from them. They're still alive, and not financially ruined or suing the Krakenkasse.

So how exactly will they not be "on your side" ?

The public health system in Germany, and other European countries from what my friends say, is not the most luxurious or expedient, but you get the care you need and without paying extravagant amounts as one would in America.

I know people in America on ACA who pay thousands per year and still have a deductable of thousands. Sure, I pay ~4,000€ to the Krakenkasse through the mandatory salary deductions each year, but I have no deductable for care.

As a young and healthy person it doesn't cost the German government that much each year to keep me alive, but this money goes toward keeping other people healthy and alive. I consider that a worthwhile goal (though I do strongly want them to ban tobacco advertising).

[0] https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesetzliche_Krankenversicher...

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#126
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd probably make the argument that it's an overemphasis on the principles of supply and demand (capitalism) that make one potentially worthless. If there are enough geographers with graduate degrees applying for the gig even at minimum wage pay, you pay them minimum wage. In the US (and let's be real, most of the world), capitalism trumps altruism (paying someone more than their market value because you're nice). We…

You see exploitation, I see a market signal to high schoolers and undergraduates telling them we have enough graduate-level geographers, encouraging them to pursue something else and eventually making us all more prosperous in the future.

Sure, just two different ways of looking at the same thing. I personally view all employment as fundamental exploitation. Obviously you only hire employees with the intention to extract more value than what you give back in compensation. Some employers are downright extreme in this exercise.

I'm not against all of it. I just appreciate viewing things from as many perspectives as possible, uncomfortable or not.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely is. If the best you can do with someone with an advanced degree is make them drive a car, you're wasting a valuable mind on a menial task.

How pretentious of you to decide what's best for someone else. Your job shaming just reinforces the notion that everyone must get a higher education degree or GTFO. Maybe people doing the job enjoy it or are doing it part time or find that the resume benefits outweigh the pay? Either way there's nothing inherently wrong with a job that requires you to drive around all day. Work is work regardless of if you look down…

[deleted]

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#128
post #121

This read made me respect the cruise workers who have made my vacations so good over the years. About 13 years ago I took my first cruise, and from that point forward, about yearly or more, I cruise (though it's been two years since my last). I prefer Royal Caribbean (and Carnival is low on my list, though I've cruised with them many times). I always joke that it's the perfect vacation for geek decompression: it's on…

You do realize that the employees have to do this. They spend hours and hours in training where they're told to always smile and greet guest. It's like strippers. The companies are taking money out of the pockets of crew by considering the gratuity included. Giving them cash is the only way to make sure they actually are rewarded for their hard work, but make sure to not do it in front of management. Actuaries are doing their best to pinch pennies, and many of those are coming from the pockets of these people.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#129
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that's surprising. Was that position you're describing doing software development? Where were you based?

Google wants Geographers with masters degrees to drive their Google Street View cars for minimum wage in Seattle. Their requirements are ridiculous for their lowend positions.

And if you profit from Google stock/options/rsus/whatever, you're benefiting from this exploitation.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#130
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google wants Geographers with masters degrees to drive their Google Street View cars for minimum wage in Seattle. Their requirements are ridiculous for their lowend positions.

And if you profit from Google stock/options/rsus/whatever, you're benefiting from this exploitation.

Those poor master's degree havers!
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