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Why Do DMT Users See Insects from a Parallel Universe?

sprott.physics.wisc.edu

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Re: Why Do DMT Users See Insects from a Parallel Universe?

#131

Post by cgriswald »

nabla9 wrote: post #90
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be hilarious if math, science, and logic turned out to be consensus hallucinations that were not only incomplete but could not make more than limited patches of sense.

It's possible to give a person posthypnotic suggestion that number four does not exist, for example. When they try to count their fingers, hilarity ensues: 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,10,11. WTF! 11 figers, this is wrong. I try to count fingers in both of my hands separately and sum them together. 1,2,3,5,6 and 1,2,3,5,6. 6+6=12 WTF, now I have 12 fingers. If math and logic were hallucinations, they would lead into contradiction…

The existence of contrary hallucinations does not imply that all hallucinations are contrary.

Re: Why Do DMT Users See Insects from a Parallel Universe?

#132

Post by saganus »

Itsdijital wrote: post #35
3131s wrote: post #27

Datura users are also commonly reported by observers to act out hallucinations involving insects. While the user often recalls an entirely different mental experience, it's common for their physical selves to be seen picking at imaginary bugs on the floor in a primal manner (among other reflexive actions, such as convincingly smoking imaginary cigarettes). It is interesting and darkly humorous (keep in mind that datu…

A long time ago I had an experience not with datura, but a close relative - benedryl (both are dissociatives). Came home after rolling on ecstasy all night and wanted to go to bed. It's not that easy though after taking a bunch of stimulants. So I took a little bit of a lot of benedryl (iirc ~200mg or 8 pills). Ripped my bong for a bit and felt nice and chilled out. About 30 minutes later though, things started to ge…

I read somewhere (erowid perhaps?) that a dissociatives are very dangerous precisely because it's very hard to tell which things are real.and which aren't so people get hurt trying to escape from these very real images.

Scary as fuck...

Re: Why Do DMT Users See Insects from a Parallel Universe?

#133

Post by mortenjorck »

ralfd wrote: post #118
Figs wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just "feeling sure" isn't enough to certain of something. Back when I was a teenager, I got interested in the idea of lucid dreaming. One of the suggested ways I'd read of gaining awareness that you are in a dream is to habitually ask yourself if you're dreaming -- sooner or later, you'll do it in a dream. I tried that for a while, and sure enough, I did actually ask myself if I was dreaming while in a dream, and c…

Conversely it is impossible in dreams to read the same thing twice. Take a book, newspaper and read a sentence. Look away. Try read again, the text/meaning will have changed.

Ha, I've found printed text in dreams (or at least in semi-lucid ones) to be the most amusing source of random words, almost as if whatever level of consciousness is awake is sampling them in transit from some less-conscous level.

Re: Why Do DMT Users See Insects from a Parallel Universe?

#134

Post by RobertoG »

hanibash wrote: post #128

My latest working theory for why DMT elicits similar experiences across different users was actually inspired by Google's "Deep Dream" art: https://research.googleblog.com/2015/06/inceptionism-going-d... "We know that after training, each layer progressively extracts higher and higher-level features of the image... The final few layers assemble those into complete interpretations—these neurons activate in response to…

"We do the same thing when we dream [..]"

I think you don't go far enough: We do the same thing when we are awake, too.

I tend to agree with your interpretation. This plays good also with the other post in the first page about the possibility of visual grammars ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13615273 ). If you play with your grammar you get strange languages.

Re: Why Do DMT Users See Insects from a Parallel Universe?

#135

Post by type0 »

NobleLie wrote: post #93
simonh wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's bee a bit of fuss over here in the UK recently about homeopathic medicines, which are supposed to be ridiculously over-diluted, containing dangerous amounts of various substances. The basic idea that tiny amounts of substances that harm you in various ways might benefit you in a related way is magical thinking. But when you can't rely on the 'tiny amounts' part, you're in pretty nasty territory.

Magical Thinking, eh? Vaccines and the entire concept of hormesis is something you should research when you get the chance.

Sadly, there is no vaccination against stupidity

Re: Why Do DMT Users See Insects from a Parallel Universe?

#137

Post by pault »

nabla9 wrote: post #90
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be hilarious if math, science, and logic turned out to be consensus hallucinations that were not only incomplete but could not make more than limited patches of sense.

It's possible to give a person posthypnotic suggestion that number four does not exist, for example. When they try to count their fingers, hilarity ensues: 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,10,11. WTF! 11 figers, this is wrong. I try to count fingers in both of my hands separately and sum them together. 1,2,3,5,6 and 1,2,3,5,6. 6+6=12 WTF, now I have 12 fingers. If math and logic were hallucinations, they would lead into contradiction…

You could just keep adding spatial dimensions until 12 fingers are predicted by the theory. Of course, everybody knows you have both 11 fingers and 12 fingers, depending on how the hand is observed.

Re: Why Do DMT Users See Insects from a Parallel Universe?

#138

Post by Neliquat »

Figs wrote: post #83
nether wrote: post #4

I saw these weird drapes folded around me that were brown, green, and white stripes. They were gently heaving, and I knew that they were living creatures that were watching over me. I didn't take enough to have a full breakthrough, but in that moment I was certain that I was dying, with all of my consciousness welled up into my head, as if that's all I was. When I came to and regained awareness of my limbs, I was rel…

> Just "feeling sure" isn't enough to certain of something. Back when I was a teenager, I got interested in the idea of lucid dreaming. One of the suggested ways I'd read of gaining awareness that you are in a dream is to habitually ask yourself if you're dreaming -- sooner or later, you'll do it in a dream. I tried that for a while, and sure enough, I did actually ask myself if I was dreaming while in a dream, and c…

Best tests. Easily done in the waking world (which is which?) Without looking like an idiot. 1. Lightswitches, they dont work right in dreams, shading is hard. 2. Clocks, or digital readouts. Time has no refrence and displays are oddly hard. 3. Hands. You do not know the back of your hand. Might be why so many people stare at their hands on psychedelics.

Re: Why Do DMT Users See Insects from a Parallel Universe?

#139

Post by pault »

KirinDave wrote: post #56
GuiA wrote: post #16

There is some evidence that seems to indicate that the humans have an evolved "built in" reaction to snake/snake like patterns: http://www.psychologicalscience.org/journals/cd/12_1/Ohman.c... As reptiles, snakes may have signified deadly threats in the environment of early mammals. We review findings suggesting that snakes remain special stimuli for humans. Intense snake fear is prevalent in both humans and other pri…

As a 12 year old I lived on a ranch that had not been fully purged of rattlesnakes (in central California, if your property has water near it and not too many roads, you probably have a few rattlesnakes). My most terrifying experience was going into the horse barn to grab a lead rope coiled up on top of a bale of hay and not seeing the juvenile rattlesnake coiled inside the lead rope. I grabbed it and the lead and by…

I've had similar experiences while rock climbing. It's totally irrational and you have no control over it. It's really fascinating but only in retrospect. :)

Re: Why Do DMT Users See Insects from a Parallel Universe?

#140

Post by byuu »

atom-morgan wrote: post #117
byuu wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a fair warning, I've never once seen a depiction of the effects of any kind of psychedelic drug that matched the effects I've personally experienced. And I've tried quite a few of them. A lot of the experience is the head space and body load, which you're just never going to get from way over the top visual approximations. If you haven't experienced those, you aren't going to be able to imagine them very accurat…

> For instance, the most psilocybin does (for me) is cause text on a screen to wiggle around by a few pixels Take more. I've been sitting in my living room literally holding my eyelids open seeing a completely different world. I agree 100% about the visual depictions though. Never gets close.

I've gone as high as I could before the body load became truly threatening. That's around 5-6g of cubensis, or 50mg of 4-AcO-DMT. Psilocin and its analogs tend to cause hypothermia for me that gets worse as dosages increase. Freezing cold yet sweating profusely. Muscles unable to keep still. At that level, it's a struggle for me to stay conscious and not black out. I have to move constantly to avoid that. It ceases to be enjoyable beyond 2-3g or 20-30mg here; low visuals there but amazing euphoria. Though to be honest, the constant nausea ruins regular mushrooms regardless of dosage.

I think there's just something off with me and visual hallucinations. I've gone as high as 1.5g on dextromethorphan, and the most I've gotten there was seeing the vague outline of what looked like my room while my eyes were closed, or seeing a grayscale wall that seemed to go up forever. Sometimes with eyes open it seems like in the darkness there's a shadowy silhouette of some other place, but the second I try to focus on it, the illusion breaks. Much more boring than the description sounds.

Note that I'm only 150lbs, too. So it's not a mg/kg dosing issue.

> I agree 100% about the visual depictions though. Never gets close.

It makes me wonder if they're just trying to give a good show for the viewers, like the way they portray computer hackers and such. Or if the people making these depictions have just never in their lives tried psychedelics themselves. Probably the former.

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