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Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

story.californiasunday.com

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Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#71

Post by jasode »

kristianc wrote: post #42
jasode wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is why I am never ever going on a cruise ship [...] Knowing that the guy serving you is basically a slave I'm not doubting your sincerity and principles but I'd like to go beyond this particular injustice of cruise workers and understand how consumers reconcile all the "slave" inputs for the other products they buy. In the USA, many fruits and veggies are collected by cheap labor from Mexico.[1] In UK, the anal…

It's always possible to make arguments like these, and their appeal is that they're impossible to refute. It's not evident that the conditions of the Filipino cruise ship worker are worse than the Foxconn worker, the strawberry picker or the factory worker in Vietnam. However one should never turn moral consistency into a prerequisite for action - otherwise we get paralysis and inaction and nothing gets done at all.…

>It's not evident that the conditions of the Filipino cruise ship worker are worse than the Foxconn worker,

That may be true but it's not relevant to my comment. I was focusing on the rationale given ("knowing the guy is a slave") and not the severity.

>However one should never turn moral consistency into a prerequisite for action

I'm also not advocating or justifying continuation of any economic evils just because one cannot have perfection of morals. Your last sentence finally gets what I wanted to discuss: "CP is perfectly able to reconcile [...] tacitly accepting slavery."

Yes, obviously millions of people _do_ reconcile the inconsistencies that but it would still be interesting to dissect how people really think.

If one is to loudly and publicly say that "I won't buy X because of slavery" but there are lots of other instances where "slavery didn't stop me from enjoying Y", doesn't that mean the more complete moral rationale would actually be:

- "I won't by X because of economic slavery -- unless my desire for X is more important than the slavery."

Doesn't the extra conditional clause at the end makes the public morality stance somewhat empty?

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#72

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

traveling wrote: post #19

Newsflash: Life sucks anywhere when you're poor and uneducated. I worked as an independent Google contractor before for less than $11 an hour with very stringent rules, ever increasing performance requirements, no holidays, no sick pay, no nothing. If you're poor and uneducated you're disposable dirt anywhere these days, even though people would like you to think otherwise and it's obviously even worse in 3rd world c…

Sounds like someone needs a whole lot of collective labor action.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#73

Post by SeanBoocock »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #35
liotier wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Found a startup, pitch on HN, get rich - c'mon man, get with the program !

For a different perspective, conditions may have changed now... I have about 6 cousins from the Philippines that are all around the world on various cruise ships, tankers, and cargo ships. Each one sending money back home, each one happy, they all love their jobs, and go back for reassignment.

So did the man profiled in this story and several of his friends until health problems and workplace conditions wore down their enthusiasm. Even if the vast majority of cruise ship employees are satisfied with their employment, one should worry about the effort to weaken laws and regulations meant to protect these vulnerable workers.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#74

Post by jasode »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #65
kristianc wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always possible to make arguments like these, and their appeal is that they're impossible to refute. It's not evident that the conditions of the Filipino cruise ship worker are worse than the Foxconn worker, the strawberry picker or the factory worker in Vietnam. However one should never turn moral consistency into a prerequisite for action - otherwise we get paralysis and inaction and nothing gets done at all.…

Most famously, this sort of non arguement was a classic defence of the soviet system when compared with the american one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_negros Being a hypocrite on these issues is basicly unavoidable in the modern world, but the critical point here is that does not make you wrong , nor is it a refutation that such things are bad and should be changed. Its just an easy trite dismis…

>Its just an easy trite dismissal

I wasn't dismissing the Filipino worker. I was trying to expand the discussion to other areas similar to the cruise worker. People may be unaware how many other workers in other industries the "slavery" criteria applies to. Or they are aware and don't care. I haven't taken a survey and don't know.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#75

Post by kofejnik »

jasode wrote: post #29
readhn wrote: post #13

This is why I am never ever going on a cruise ship (or any resort in Mexico, Dominican etc). Knowing that the guy serving you is basically a slave working for pennies while you are supposed to enjoy your vacation and relax- I couldn't, no thank you. What surprises me to this day is how little it costs to buy American congress. 1,000,000$ lobbying costs? That's less than a lot of houses in SF or NYC. Shouldn't it cost…

>This is why I am never ever going on a cruise ship [...] Knowing that the guy serving you is basically a slave I'm not doubting your sincerity and principles but I'd like to go beyond this particular injustice of cruise workers and understand how consumers reconcile all the "slave" inputs for the other products they buy. In the USA, many fruits and veggies are collected by cheap labor from Mexico.[1] In UK, the anal…

Everything is connected, and you cannot hold yourself responsible for every perceived injustice in the world. You'd need to go full Amish to do that even semi-seriously.

Filipinos who work these jobs are better off with them, not without. That's what counts imo.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#76

Post by xapata »

traveling wrote: post #53
Synaesthesia wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not something that's writ in stone though - we could hangs that, and change starts with education, articles like this.

Call me overly cynical, but the future is looking even worse with ever increasing automation. There will most likely be a small elite of technocrats and wealthy while everybody else is living in shacks competing for whatever jobs are left. Most single millenial guys that aren't in tech or another high paying career are already living in shared housing indefinetely if they're in a big city. An excess of people having…

Shared housing isn't bad in principle. It was only some decades ago that most people didn't own a single-family freestanding home. I hope that when I'm old I can live with all my friends in a big shared home, rather than a nursing home.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#77

Post by tyingq »

readhn wrote: post #13

This is why I am never ever going on a cruise ship (or any resort in Mexico, Dominican etc). Knowing that the guy serving you is basically a slave working for pennies while you are supposed to enjoy your vacation and relax- I couldn't, no thank you. What surprises me to this day is how little it costs to buy American congress. 1,000,000$ lobbying costs? That's less than a lot of houses in SF or NYC. Shouldn't it cost…

I like going to touristy resorts in Mexico. I just tip generously and make sure it goes right in their hand. You can tell from the reaction that it's making a meaningful impact, perhaps more so than boycotting the trip.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#78

Post by jdavis703 »

differentView wrote: post #64
trome wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google wants Geographers with masters degrees to drive their Google Street View cars for minimum wage in Seattle. Their requirements are ridiculous for their lowend positions.

It's not ridiculous as long as there are Geographers with masters degrees willing to take those jobs.

Actually it is ridiculous. Why were public funds spent on giving someone advanced education to drive around? Is there nothing better society can do with such skills?

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#79

Post by tyingq »

senior_james wrote: post #69
traveling wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to dox myself, but you can probably guess which western European country doesn't. Healthcare isn't US level expensive there where you'll go bankrupt with any minor issue but still prohibitively expensive if you don't make much and break your arm for example, so it's somewhat essential. A colleague of mine got diagnosed with a serious heart condition, was away for a month or so without sick pay, got fired…

I keep hearing that you will 'go bankrupt' with every minor health issue in the US. Do you actually live in the US? Have you used US healthcare? I pay for my own health insurance (because I own my own company) and while not cheap, it's affordable. I think I pay around $250 US/month. I get regular checkups included (most prescriptions cost me $10 or less) and I had a colonoscopy last year and it cost me less that $50.…

Aside from the deductible, most insurance plans in the US cover only a percentage of costs. 80 or 90 percent is common. For a single, simple, surgery it's bearable. Something like cancer, with ct scans, chemo, radiation, surgery with a 1 week hospital stay, etc...can bankrupt you.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#80

Post by xapata »

senior_james wrote: post #69
traveling wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to dox myself, but you can probably guess which western European country doesn't. Healthcare isn't US level expensive there where you'll go bankrupt with any minor issue but still prohibitively expensive if you don't make much and break your arm for example, so it's somewhat essential. A colleague of mine got diagnosed with a serious heart condition, was away for a month or so without sick pay, got fired…

I keep hearing that you will 'go bankrupt' with every minor health issue in the US. Do you actually live in the US? Have you used US healthcare? I pay for my own health insurance (because I own my own company) and while not cheap, it's affordable. I think I pay around $250 US/month. I get regular checkups included (most prescriptions cost me $10 or less) and I had a colonoscopy last year and it cost me less that $50.…

In other states it's more like $400 per month for the cheapest, $5k annual deductible insurance.

Keep in mind that many people would be bankrupted by a $5k expense.

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