Live data from Hacker News

The Curse of Smart People (2014)

apenwarr.ca

81–90 of 166 posts

Re: The Curse of Smart People (2014)

#81
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and that's coming from Teller, who wasn't exactly an intellectual lightweight.

Exactly. I can't even fathom this level of intellect. Edit: If anyone is interested in the topic of Hungarian scientists in the twentieth century, I can highly recommend the book The Voice of the Martians [1]. It can be a bit dry at times but it is incredibly interesting nonetheless. American scientists jokingly referred to their Hungarian colleagues as Martians due to their other worldly intelligence and their accen…

While we're on a von Neumann love fest, here are some other great quotes:

  The Nobel Laureate Hans Bethe speculated: "I have sometimes wondered
  whether a brain like von Neumann's does not indicate a species
  superior to that of man". Eugene Wigner wrote that, seeing von
  Neumann's mind at work, "one had the impression of a perfect
  instrument whose gears were machined to mesh accurately to a
  thousandth of an inch." Paul Halmos states that "von Neumann's speed
  was awe-inspiring." Israel Halperin said: "Keeping up with him was
  ... impossible. The feeling was you were on a tricycle chasing a
  racing car." Edward Teller admitted that he "never could keep
  up with him".

  When George Dantzig brought von Neumann an unsolved problem in
  linear programming "as I would to an ordinary mortal", on which
  there had been no published literature, he was astonished when von
  Neumann said "Oh, that!", before offhandedly giving a lecture of
  over an hour, explaining how to solve the problem using the hitherto
  unconceived theory of duality.
That said, as astounding as Neumann's intellect was, his, Teller's, and the other brilliant Manhattan Project's scientists' roles in devising arguably the most terrible weapons that human kind has ever produced, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and threatening the destruction of the world or at least civilization as we know it is certainly a sober reminder that intellectual achievement does not automatically result in ethical achievement. Though, of course, how ethical their actions were could be endlessly debated, and there are plenty of people who think they did the right thing.

On the subject of Hungarian scientists, I've read that Europe in general was a hothouse of intellectual achievement and education before the 2nd and especially before the 1st World War. It was just sheer insanity that they virtually destroyed themselves, their civilization, and culture, and exiled and murdered many of their most brilliant men.

Even sadder that the world might be preparing to do it again. Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

Re: The Curse of Smart People (2014)

#82
post #7

My pet theory: much of 'gut feelings' and intuition boils down to having our internal black box predict the behavior of other people. When you are 'average', this often simplifies to reasoning about what you would do in the same circumstances, which is relatively easy. If you are 3 standard deviations out, you'll have to compensate that consciously, which is inaccurate and difficult and slow. This is like how UI desi…

> NormalPersonVM(pre-alpha) I literally did a spit-take when I read that. Is there a proper term for that cognitive routine?

System 2 override, perhaps, though that's more general.

Re: The Curse of Smart People (2014)

#83
post #9

I wonder how much human potential we're wasting by putting "smart people" on a pedestal instead of having higher and better utilization of regular people. Regular people are far more capable than working at McDonalds, Walmart, Amazon, or whatever wage slave job BigCo is offering. It's pretty hard to prove, but I bet that we're barely even at 1% utilization of humanity's potential, given our technology and population.

And about 4 billion people live in the slums with no access to basic human needs much less education. Oh, how many einsteins and others are there among those people. Heck the cure for cancer could be among those people but we (collectively as a human race) choose to sideline them and throw away their potential. I think this is a huge loss to the whole human race.

Re: The Curse of Smart People (2014)

#84
I like how everyone has a different opinion about how a smart person has to be, but in most cases people are referring to certain traits that do not correlate with intelligence (and frequently could indicate deviation in either direction), and that's plausible since intelligence is such an abstract notion.

For instance, recognising patterns, and acting on those patterns are two different things. One might notice that acting on the patterns can bring him success/economical safety and what he considers joy or effortlessly having goods. But the other one can make a step further and consider that in the steady state he will not be any happier. If both happen to make this logical step, they might have to make a decision based on their preferences, which is highly subjective.

For me, intelligence is not comparable. To be more honest, I think there is only a partial order, and for that, I'm not sure.

Re: The Curse of Smart People (2014)

#85

Here's a summary for why smart people are "cursed": If you are two or 3 standard deviations about the mean, you'll quickly realize society is optimized and caters to the average intelligence. You'll find it very boring and frustrating having to deal with rules and decisions that do not make sense. You must continually push yourself to stay entertained and meet like-minded people otherwise you'll get very depressed th…

As a smart person, I see things a different way. There are certain hobbies that are only appeal to smart people, like pure math. But there are a lot of things that appeal to a broad range of people, like sport, arts, music and literature. I think it's very good to get involved in these things because they bring balance and a way to related to other people. In fact I created a "no programming related hobbies" rule for…

I lifted weights with two guys who were both physicists :)

Re: The Curse of Smart People (2014)

#86
post #21
post #9

I wonder how much human potential we're wasting by putting "smart people" on a pedestal instead of having higher and better utilization of regular people. Regular people are far more capable than working at McDonalds, Walmart, Amazon, or whatever wage slave job BigCo is offering. It's pretty hard to prove, but I bet that we're barely even at 1% utilization of humanity's potential, given our technology and population.

Imagine if the world's nail salon workers could spend their time curing cancer, fighting hunger or homelessness instead of the useless primping of rich people's hands and feet. If we only had an economic system to allow everyone to reach their fullest potential despite circumstances of birth, and social priorities where personal vanity was not placed above the good of humanity. In 500 years time maybe we'll get there…

In the UK hair dressers regularly come out as the people happiest in their work, it's not a huge leap to imagine nail salon workers are similar.

Re: The Curse of Smart People (2014)

#87
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I can't even fathom this level of intellect. Edit: If anyone is interested in the topic of Hungarian scientists in the twentieth century, I can highly recommend the book The Voice of the Martians [1]. It can be a bit dry at times but it is incredibly interesting nonetheless. American scientists jokingly referred to their Hungarian colleagues as Martians due to their other worldly intelligence and their accen…

While we're on a von Neumann love fest, here are some other great quotes: The Nobel Laureate Hans Bethe speculated: "I have sometimes wondered whether a brain like von Neumann's does not indicate a species superior to that of man". Eugene Wigner wrote that, seeing von Neumann's mind at work, "one had the impression of a perfect instrument whose gears were machined to mesh accurately to a thousandth of an inch." Paul…

I think a lot of people say these grandiose things about smart people because they don't want to consider that they simply spent 30+ years doing little but their work/passion and are simply very good.

Feynman was a genius, but he dissects his own accomplishments and you can see how if you only knew this, this, this, and that, plus a few different methods of integration, it would have seemed obvious to you too.

tl;dr we do our heroes a disservice when we hold them in too high esteem, because we discount their very human, and very costly, accomplishments.

Re: The Curse of Smart People (2014)

#88
post #7

My pet theory: much of 'gut feelings' and intuition boils down to having our internal black box predict the behavior of other people. When you are 'average', this often simplifies to reasoning about what you would do in the same circumstances, which is relatively easy. If you are 3 standard deviations out, you'll have to compensate that consciously, which is inaccurate and difficult and slow. This is like how UI desi…

Agree. One of my friends is pretty smart (at least, above above-average) and works in the tech industry. When he was young he had to "simulate" his emotions to "look like a normal person." He had to think what normal people would feel under his situation and tried to feel that way (or tried to make himself looked feeling that way in front of people). For example, he thinks that crying on funerals is illogical, becaus…

Most dumb and normal people also don't cry at funerals.

Smarter people than your friends have feelings, fall in love and cry for their dead pets.

Nothing to do with how smart you are. Cynicism isn't being smart. Cynicism is just being cynic.

He could be smarter and not cry and just say "I'll miss him/her" in smalltalk rather than rationalising the whole thing (because that's actually the dumb thing to do).

Re: The Curse of Smart People (2014)

#89
post #7

My pet theory: much of 'gut feelings' and intuition boils down to having our internal black box predict the behavior of other people. When you are 'average', this often simplifies to reasoning about what you would do in the same circumstances, which is relatively easy. If you are 3 standard deviations out, you'll have to compensate that consciously, which is inaccurate and difficult and slow. This is like how UI desi…

> My pet theory: much of 'gut feelings' and intuition boils down to having our internal black box predict the behavior of other people.

That's a tautology.

> Smart people end up having to run SmartPerson + NormalPersonVM(pre-alpha) in parallel. Normal people just run NormalPerson natively. Then they complain about bugs and slowness ('smart people are out of touch with reality!', etc.)

When all you have is hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Re: The Curse of Smart People (2014)

#90
Reading the article, I wasn't sure which ones were the smart people there: those who are confident that they are smart, hence successful, or those who constantly question their smarts, but are successful nonetheless?
Post reply on HN