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Evernote’s transition to Google Cloud Platform

blog.evernote.com

141–144 of 144 posts

Re: Evernote’s transition to Google Cloud Platform

#141
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why you should run your entire application on bare metal (colo or dedicated) with failover to the cloud. The benefit of the cloud is its elasticity. You can handle a 2000% traffic increase by spinning up VMs instantly; no need to wait a day or week or month for bare metal provisioning. And you should do this! But once you've structured your application this way, you are already horizontally scalable. There is…

You'd have to price in the cognitive load for engineering for that setup, and the recruiting costs / turnover costs for anyone that had to be exposed to the colo center. Also, the colo center! Speed & reliability are features, so you'd have to make sure to pick a colo center that had a competitive setup in terms of peering & backbone speeds, power redundancy, etc. Ideally you'd also be in more than 1 colo unless the…

> You'd have to price in the cognitive load for engineering for that setup, and the recruiting costs / turnover costs for anyone that had to be exposed to the colo center.

All of which tends to be more expensive if you replace the "colo center" at the end with "cloud provider".

Operating a cloud setup is by no means free of operational issues.

> so you'd need staff in more than 1 region

If you're too small to need that, you use managed hosting, pay a tiny premium over bare metal colo providers, but still far less than a cloud setup.

> It's not simplistic at all

Yes, it is, it is trivial to model, and for companies that don't have the experience, there are consultancies everywhere that will do it for you (that's part of what I do for a living - it's always the easiest jobs to get paid for, because there are hard numbers that shows them how much more they'll be saving that year than what they'll be paying me).

> but unless your hosting costs are really dragging down profit, I'd pinch pennies elsewhere personally.

I regularly deal with clients where hosting costs are measured in tens of percent of total operating costs. For a lot of internet related business, hosting is a massive drag.

Re: Evernote’s transition to Google Cloud Platform

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why you should run your entire application on bare metal (colo or dedicated) with failover to the cloud. The benefit of the cloud is its elasticity. You can handle a 2000% traffic increase by spinning up VMs instantly; no need to wait a day or week or month for bare metal provisioning. And you should do this! But once you've structured your application this way, you are already horizontally scalable. There is…

Data has weight. You'd need to duplicate some portion of your data between on premise and cloud. I feel the better approach is doing 100% on cloud compute with bare metal CDN / reverse proxy

That can certainly be cost effective if bandwidth is your main cost. Bandwidth cost is the most atrociously overpriced part of the big public cloud providers, so it's certainly worth pricing out, in particular for people who already are on a cloud provider and where moving would be complex.

Re: Evernote’s transition to Google Cloud Platform

#143
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but is using one of the major cloud services cheaper than running your own? At list prices? Pretty much never. Nobody sane with installations like Evernote are paying remotely close to the published prices, though. The cloud providers rarely make sense in terms of cost for smaller businesses unless you heavily rely on batch jobs (spinning servers up/down) or other of their more advanced services. There are many val…

"> but is using one of the major cloud services cheaper than running your own? At list prices? Pretty much never. " ??? It's almost always 'cheaper' for small companies to use the cloud. It costs a lot of money to pay people to figure what hardware to buy, install servers, networking gear, maintain it, pay for bandwidth, backup etc. But the cost becomes 'non starter' when you start to access all the nice things that…

> It costs a lot of money to pay people to figure what hardware to buy, install servers, networking gear, maintain it, pay for bandwidth, backup etc.

That's part of what I do for a living, yet my clients tends to have recovered my fees in 2-3 months from the savings they make on reduced hosting costs. Those savings include factoring in the ongoing operational costs.

50%+ savings is not unusual. We've achieved 90% in rare cases (high bandwidth requirements - bandwidth costs are extreme at the cloud providers).

> But the cost becomes 'non starter' when you start to access all the nice things that cloud offers: Lambdas, S3, easy backups, etc. etc. and the fact that it 'scales on demand'.

Nothing in a bare metal setup precludes you from using cloud functionality when/where it makes economic sense to do that rather than implement an alternative. I have plenty of hybrid setups running.

> Then of course there are the financing aspects: you don't pay for expensive servers up front, you 'lease' them effectively - which has serious working capital benefits.

That's what we do when we use colocated servers too. There is no difference there.

> So sure - if you want to compare only 'server instance costs' - maybe 'buying your own instance' - specifically on a server by server basis ... maybe it's cheaper to buy a server.

I'm not comparing only server instance costs. I'm comparing total cost of operating fully managed environments, including total staff costs including staff overheads.

> I'd argue that 'rolling your own infrastructure'

You don't need to roll your own infrastructure - you can go to managed hosting providers, or the multitude of consultancies like mine that will do it for you. Heck, I'll happily sign deals with people where I'm paid in a given percent of the saving I generate, because the savings are large and predictable.

> And even then I'm not so sure - this is why so many big and successful companies still use the cloud.

Big, successful companies don't pay the published rates. I have direct knowledge of companies with 75%+ discounts from major cloud providers. At those rates: yes, it is cost effective.

Re: Evernote’s transition to Google Cloud Platform

#144
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evernote didn't get everything for free. They still pay Google with some NDA stuff in the contract (better support, better pricing model, some free stuff here and there). I wouldn't have a second doubt the CEO's past employment at Google influenced the decision. After all, he had to sign it.

You're right; they didn't get anything for free. They gave up access to their logo and the story for discounts. That's how the game is played. And there's no problem with that! Both sides win. I just thought it was funny that they mentioned the donuts at all. Sales/solution teams bring stuff like that all the time. It's totally irrelevant, until you realize that the original article was a puff piece.

I see. I missed that reference, sorry I didn't catch it on time. I remember those days when browsers would send each other cakes...
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