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Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

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Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#471

Post by palerdot »

gregwebs wrote: post #372
EdiX wrote: post #303

Free startup idea: Patreon for Open Source * Users signs up to OSPatreon, downloads OSPatreon app that creates ospatreon directory in $HOME/.local/share/ or other operating system appropriate location, then creates a cronjob (or whatever) to rerun after one month * Open Source projects that want in add a snippet of code that, when the application closes, writes the amount of time the application ran to $HOME/.local/s…

This is a good idea. However, I think it is problematic that most open source usage is in the form of libraries. If a GUI leverages amazing open-source libraries, only the GUI author would be paid. Additionally, many closed source (GUI or not) projects leverage many open-source libraries.

It can be solved with the main app listing its oss dependencies - similar to dependencies in node package.json . the amount to be paid to the main project gets split based on the dependencies and weightage specified.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#473

Post by kazinator »

fsloth wrote: post #189
sandGorgon wrote: post #116

This post today is what is wrong with open source software. If someone knows jwe, then they should tell him that lots of corporates and startups WANT to support stuff like this. But you cannot give a paypal link and expect donations. As a company, I cant do that. I need an invoice. Hell, if you can get a business account, I daresay you will get subscriptions. I like to call this "gratitude-ware". Check out Sidekiq Pr…

My heart breaks each time I discover a free tool of recognition is developed by some altruistic talent who lives at a near poverty level while their work generates millions in added value. I suppose the simplest way would be to offer dual licensing. GPL for non-profit projects, proprietary for enterprises. The problem is, if the source code you are working on depends on third party GPL software it's very hard to do t…

This developer has been able to work at their hobby project for a quarter century, and finally has to contemplate the brutal reality of finding a job not related to it.

Sorry, my heart just can't ache somehow!

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#474

Post by acqq »

jordigh wrote: post #366
radarsat1 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Two things though: * Developers, in general, are not business people. This may be different in Silicon Valley, but in a lot of the world, programmers have spent their life concentrating on one thing, learning to program. That doesn't mean they don't just "not know how" to start a business and find clients. It means they don't even know how to do the basic, first steps to registering one, knowing what to char…

These two points are very important. I've wanted to make Octave a business, but I just never knew how to start. I tried to find people who would help us get started, but the only ones I could find wanted to either compromise Octave's freedom (e.g. sell non-free extensions) or wanted some kind of way of turning Octave into a giant billion-dollar business very quickly. I couldn't find anyone who could help us do someth…

Businesses simply need to get the proper invoices. By all means do enough work to make that visible and easily obtainable for them if you want to get any money.

Still, the money from what you call "useless" licenses is minimal compared to the one that the businesses are ready to pay if they don't have any other alternative but to pay. Business are the systems that are designed to make profit. If they don't have to pay, they typically won't.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#475

Post by cabalamat »

st3v3r wrote: post #387
cabalamat wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My heart breaks each time I discover a free tool of recognition is developed by some altruistic talent who lives at a near poverty level while their work generates millions in added value. Maybe there could be a startup that helps people monetise their free software output?

Ok, I am calling for a ban on the "maybe there could be a startup that solves the problem?" style comments without at least trying to flesh out how they would actually do that.

Well that's told me! I'll have a think about this and see what I can come up with.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#476

Post by mperham »

clairity wrote: post #466
jordigh wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These two points are very important. I've wanted to make Octave a business, but I just never knew how to start. I tried to find people who would help us get started, but the only ones I could find wanted to either compromise Octave's freedom (e.g. sell non-free extensions) or wanted some kind of way of turning Octave into a giant billion-dollar business very quickly. I couldn't find anyone who could help us do someth…

as mperham said (i use sidekiq btw), once you know how you want to charge people (license, support, book, conference, whatever) the mechanics of going about it on the business side are pretty straightforward. you need to set up a legal entity (corporation or LLC), get a bank account, and set up a (e-commerce) store front somewhere. the nice thing is that octave is established enough that you won't need to do a lot of…

Well said.

Every project has to determine their own path to sustainability. Knowing only what I've read here, I'd sell support in seat packs, e.g. $1000/yr for every 250 users. A good sized university might have 1000 engineering students and $4000/yr for a critical tool used by all their classes seems reasonable.

The great thing is that you define support however you want. 24/7 phone? Email during business hours only? Just make it clear to the customer so expectations are properly set.

A business might only have 10 people that use a tool like Octave but $1000/yr isn't a big deal if that tool is necessary for their daily work.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#477

Post by jkaunisv1 »

Jach wrote: post #431
jkaunisv1 wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak to Matlab/Octave but as for Photoshop, FOSS folks always say use GIMP. But the interface is just so terrible compared to PS and I think they underestimate how important that is. Maybe it's configurable but for example, simple things like alt-tabbing between GIMP and other programs was painful because it opened parts of its interface as separate windows, so you'd alt-tab to your browser, then back to GIM…

What's funny is Gimp used to be single-window, then for some reason they redesigned to multi-window crap, and now they're back to single window (at the cost of ctrl+s -- fine, whatever). Still many UI quirks for sure. I don't know how much it matters for non-trained users though, Photoshop confuses me too on the rare occasion I get to try using it. For professional artists, they're likely using more tools than just "…

It's not really about being incapable of learning new UIs though - I'm perfectly capable, I just don't want to. Why learn a UI that takes 3X as many steps to chop up a site design when there's one that takes X?

Sadly most artists who want to save money just pirate, which is what led to the terrible Creative Cloud situation. But that led to Affinity which seems to be a solid, buy-once (for cheap!) replacement. I agree the monolithic nature of Adobe is bad for everybody but that's not a reason to choose a subpar tool. Also people can write and sell their own plugins for Adobe products as well.

Anyway I think we're mostly on the same page.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#478

Post by enjalot »

radarsat1 wrote: post #402
enjalot wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your second point is the real open question that should be explored deeper. Your first point however is harmful and patronizing. If you can find coding answers on stackoverflow you can certainly google for information on opening an LLC and a business checking account. There is no need to bring in business partners, you can contract an accountant and even an attorney without compromising anything and just payi…

Man, I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I may understand how to handle template metaprogramming in C++, but personally I find the complexities of business and society to be complete and total roadblocks for setting up my own business. Moreover I have no idea how to find partners who could take care of that part for me. It may seem trivial to you, but that just shows how little you understand certain programmer's (and…

I would advise your grandma to go to the genius bar at an apple store, just like I might advise you to go to legalzoom or some other easily approachable service for business and accounting.

The point isn't to start the most successful company ever its to just be able to function and do what you want to do (programming). By your analogy your grandma is willing to navigate a confusing and dissorienting world to get what she wants (probably facetime with her family) but you are just going to sit around waiting for someone else to hand you what you want without any effort on your part to learn something new?

You dont need partners, you just need a business checking account and an LLC so you can invoice companies. I recommend waveapps for creating and managing invoices btw.

Sorry if my tone is a little tough but I read so many defeatist comments in this thread and it depresses me that so many smart individuals willing to do so much good for the world arent willing to invest some of their talents (like relentless google searching and asking questions on forums) in taking care of themselves.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#479

Post by dflock »

nathancahill wrote: post #121
dflock wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like this: https://salt.bountysource.com/ Obviously, there are also lots of open source people earning income from Patreon and the traditional bountysource too - but salt is the Bountysource clone of Patreon, specifically for OSS.

The idea is a good one. But see how none of the projects break $3k/month? And how drastically it drops down to $500? There just isn't that much money moving in that model. Period. The Open Collective project mentioned in your sibling looks even nicer, but tops out at $5k/year.

It's not the model, it's the audience size.

These guys are making $24k per month on Patreon, for example: https://www.patreon.com/Kurzgesagt - I would guess it's just a function of their audience size and the amount of work they put into fundraising - actually asking people to contribute.

ElementaryOS have actually been working at this a little bit (unlike almost all other open source projects) - and they've built up to $1k a month on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/elementary - plus ~$200 a month on salt/bountysource, plus direct donations, etc...

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#480

Post by jhgjklj »

toephu2 wrote: post #110
vcistan-inmate wrote: post #41

I don't understand how YC can fund non-profits like VotePlz and the ACLU while not funding stuff like this. All of the startups funded by VCs use free software, often exclusively, but these VCs continue to refuse to adequately fund its development. Marc Andreessen even publicly boasted about how much OSS his companies use[1], which he of course doesn't pay for. I also shudder to think of how Eaton will fare on the jo…

Yes you can bet the farm that if he interviews at Google, Facebook, Uber, Amazon, Dropbox, etc. they will all whiteboard his ass (if he even gets an interview --because of his age). They don't give a f' who you are or what you did. In my google onsite they didn't even ask about past projects (who cares really?). The question is can you whiteboard?

Probably this is the right thing to do, because this is a weak-link network problem https://9clouds.com/blog/weak-link-networks/.
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