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H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

economist.com

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Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#291

Post by runT1ME »

geebee wrote: post #243

The economist proposes getting rid of the rule that requires H1B workers remain within the company that sponsors them That sounds reasonable, but why then require that a company sponsor an immigrant in the first place? Why not let that immigrant choose where he or she will work? In fact, why not let the immigrant choose what to study, where to work, where to live, all in response to market signals? People have posted…

One, salary is not total compensation. Two, if an H1B can job hop, you have to include a nice carrot along with the sponsorship to keep them around (vesting RSU, vesting profit share %, tiered bonuses etc). Let the free market work.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#293

Post by monksy »

jlj wrote: post #284
freyr wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing the average salary of all H-1B jobs (developer, accountant, analyst, etc.) to the salary of a developer. Instead, look at the average salaries for H-1B software engineers in 2016: Facebook @ Menlo Park: $152k Google @ Mountain View: $130k Apple @ Cupertino: $154k Amazon @ Seattle: $124k Microsoft @ Redmond: $120 So comparing base salary alone, these companies are definitely not underpaying their H-1B…

Many people I've worked with came to the US on H1-B's sponsored by the big outsourcing firms, then they move to one of the above mentioned companes. Presumably they move to those companies for better pay and working hours. And they have processes in place to handle the H1-B transfers. There is a lot of prestige with landing a job at those companies too. It's not everyone who can do that though, these folks are the up…

> huge supply of people overseas wanting those jobs so that they can get their foot into the US and then find something better

That's not really a good justification of claiming that the US Supply is more than what the current market holds. With that same arguement, a business could claim: Banana processing in Costa Rica costs $0.5/hr, so that means that we should have that as a ceiling in the US for the same job. It's apples and oranges.

There is a huge amount of people that would like to emigrate for financial improvement. But, at the end of the day they live there you live here. Want to take advantage of the supply that you're referring to, open up a location there. (And find out why they don't already have that organization there)

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#294

Post by Declanomous »

geodel wrote: post #196
Declanomous wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A medical degree costs a lot more than the degree necessary to work in IT. I don't have the report off the top of my head, but doctors don't reach salary parity with their peers who got bachelors degrees until their mid-40s. Edit: I'm talking about lifetime earnings parity, not yearly parity. If you are marking $85k in IT as a 27 year old, you are way ahead of someone who starts making $175k at the age of 35 and has…

Though I do not have doctor friends in US so I may be wrong but I have heard from many that even family doctors here start with 200K pa almost anywhere in US. Now apart from top end software/banking most would not reach that number by end of career in software/IT.

That's true, but you can easily reach a six figure salary in software or IT, and you'll essentially have been in the workforce for twice as long as the doctor if you retire at 65.

How much you make really depends on your specialty as well. Cosmetic surgeons, anesthesiologists and radiologists make a lot more money than general practitioners. Pediatric anything does not make much money.

Cosmetic surgeons make an absolute boatload of money though. Like, an absurd amount. A guy I play pickup basketball with went from being a pediatric surgeon to a cosmetic surgeon, and he said it almost feels criminal how much more money he makes now.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#295

Post by learc83 »

throwaway100217 wrote: post #260
geebee wrote: post #243

The economist proposes getting rid of the rule that requires H1B workers remain within the company that sponsors them That sounds reasonable, but why then require that a company sponsor an immigrant in the first place? Why not let that immigrant choose where he or she will work? In fact, why not let the immigrant choose what to study, where to work, where to live, all in response to market signals? People have posted…

There is no rule that stops an H1B from transferring to another company. It is a two way "at-will" law that supersedes any employment agreement.

No, but if they are in certain stages of applying for a green card, their application resets.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#296

Post by Declanomous »

sjg007 wrote: post #225
elgenie wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not salary parity per se, but rather that in the comparison the doctors are paying both the actual cost of medical school (and the servicing of the resulting debt) and the opportunity cost of spending seven-to-ten years in school/residency/fellowship before actually making a high salary. Meanwhile, their bachelor-only peers have been paid money, gained experience and gotten promoted.

Doctors can get 10 year loan forgiveness or even employer repayment. Then after age 40 (salary parity with a BS) the earnings compound. The doctor will be at 150k+ which is likely more than the BS holder alone. Plus the doctor doesn't have to worry about layoffs and is always employable.

Loan forgiveness isn't that great of a deal, because the IRS treats it as taxable income. So if you are making $200k a year, and you get a $200k loan forgiven, you will have a massive tax burden.

Plus, loan forgiveness is only after ten years of payments. Doctors will probably not have much money remaining on their loans, unless they spent ten years working for Doctors without Borders or something similar. If you pay back your student loans at the standard rate you will have repaid them after 10 years.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#297

Post by arachnids »

throwaway100217 wrote: post #270
paulus_magnus2 wrote: post #218

(EU citizen point of view) I'd never consider a role in US that pays less than 150k (outside SV) $200k (SV/NY). H-1B is really bad because the holder has limited bargaining power vs US citizens hence he's forced to accept a lower salary when competing for jobs. There's also no clean way to allow talent to move around the world. A fair solution would be to agree on visa free movement of specialists earning above certa…

Once in the US, an H1-B auth holder can move at will to another company without informing the current employer. If the H1 transfer fails, it is a silent failure, Bargaining power is an illusion once the employee is in the US.

Nonsense. The power of an alternative employment offer is the leverage its gives you against your current salary. As a green card holder, my employer has twice matched competing offers resulting in significant raises.

If I was still on an H-1B, I would never have been able to negotiate that way because of the risk that they fire me and I get deported.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#298

Post by thaw654651 »

loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

I've seen people getting Software engineering offers from Microsoft/Amazon in the recent years, salaries were less than $117,000, but it came with a stock award vesting over 3.5 years that increased the total compensation significantly.

By people here, I mean H1B applicants but also Ivy league and top schools U.S. citizens. As soon as a H1-B employee starts, the company would start sponsoring a green card and cover all the legal fees associated with it.

The problem with H1-B at Apple/Amazon/Fb/Google/Microsoft isn't the base salary, it's the long path to green card for Indians and Chinese citizens, reducing their job mobility and career opportunities.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#299

Post by Matt_Mickiewicz »

jlj wrote: post #284
freyr wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing the average salary of all H-1B jobs (developer, accountant, analyst, etc.) to the salary of a developer. Instead, look at the average salaries for H-1B software engineers in 2016: Facebook @ Menlo Park: $152k Google @ Mountain View: $130k Apple @ Cupertino: $154k Amazon @ Seattle: $124k Microsoft @ Redmond: $120 So comparing base salary alone, these companies are definitely not underpaying their H-1B…

Many people I've worked with came to the US on H1-B's sponsored by the big outsourcing firms, then they move to one of the above mentioned companes. Presumably they move to those companies for better pay and working hours. And they have processes in place to handle the H1-B transfers. There is a lot of prestige with landing a job at those companies too. It's not everyone who can do that though, these folks are the up…

Would be fascinating to see how many people from TCS, Wipro and Infosys ended up moving to Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft after a few years in the US.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#300

Post by sidlls »

emidln wrote: post #273
harichinnan wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would essentially mean only silicon valley and NYC employers would get H1B employees. The entire South would face a skills shortage. The economist article actually provides a better solution. Visas shouldn't be tied to a particular employer. The employee should be able to transition to a new employer without a new visa application. There could be minimal paperwork to determine when a foreign worker is and whethe…

> The entire South would face a skills shortage. Maybe the "entire South" should increase their rates if they want to compete on talent. I have no sympathy for a company that can't find talent because "we don't pay SV rates because we're not in SV".

It's amusing how "cost of living" is somehow seen as a reasonable consideration for determining salary but not what rates a customer is charged for the products.
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