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How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

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Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#61

Post by jusuchin »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #33
mstade wrote: post #8

> In the US, and other countries where you drive on the right side of the road, right turns are free, but for a left turn you need to wait for a green light. I don't know of any other country than the US where turning right on red is allowed, unless there's specific signage or additional traffic lights to allow it. Indeed, the turn-on-red rule in the US seems to work inverse to how I've seen it elsewhere – i.e. it's…

It gets even better -- you can also make an "Oregon left" - in Oregon it is legal to turn left on red if you are turning onto a one way street. http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/index.ssf/2015/10/turn_l...

In Milwaukee there are a few spots you can turn left on red technically "after stopping". The locations I know are freeway off-ramps onto one way streets, and simple left turns onto one way streets.

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#62

Post by dionidium »

jweir wrote: post #44
dorfsmay wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turning right on red is one of those idea that once you've been exposed to it you wonder why isn't everybody adopting it... A similar idea is the train system in Munich where they built their platforms such that they can open doors on both sides, making one side of the train the exit, and the other side the entrance. Ever since I saw that, every single time I wait for people getting off a crowded train, I wonder "Why…

NYC has no right on red. After getting used to I loved it. Now I live in another city with right on red and a fair amount of bike and pedestrian traffic. Turning right on red means looking out for cars, people, bikes and having the pressure of a car behind you - perhaps honking because it wants you to go.

Driving in (the busiest parts of) NYC is an outlier experience that doesn't resemble much else.

(I'm curious what other city you're talking about.)

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#63

Post by [deleted] »

leereeves wrote: post #6

> eliminating left turns wherever possible after it found that drivers have to sit idly in the trucks while waiting to take the left turn to pass through traffic. So, it created an algorithm that eliminated left turns from drivers’ routes even if meant a longer journey. Sounds reasonable. > In 2005 ... the total distance covered by its 96,000 trucks was reduced by 747,000km. In 2011, ... the company had reduced dista…

[deleted]

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#64

Post by jack9 »

lorenzhs wrote: post #58
JakeTheAndroid wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been across the US, I would say that the right-on-red rule is so consistent that you can say it's legal in the US. It's just a rule with an exception.

According to Wikipedia [1], "as of 1992, right turn on red is governed federally by 42 U.S.C. § 6322(c)", which reads [2]: > Each proposed State energy conservation plan to be eligible > for Federal assistance under this part shall include [...] > a traffic law or regulation which, to the maximum extent > practicable consistent with safety, permits the operator of a > motor vehicle to turn such vehicle right at a red…

This is not "governed federally". Making a state eligible for Federal assistance is not the same as being a legal requirement. How you confuse these things is an example a simple comprehension failure or possibly someone who doesn't understand US law to any degree. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red shows a handy little map in the bottom right highlighting the differences between states.

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#65

Post by koenigdavidmj »

TruthSHIFT wrote: post #34
poulsbohemian wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets even better -- you can also make an "Oregon left" - in Oregon it is legal to turn left on red if you are turning onto a one way street. http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/index.ssf/2015/10/turn_l...

Georgia has this too. Who doesn't have this?

In Washington we are advised pretty strongly that Oregon has this but California and Idaho very much do not.

(Incidentally, highway on-ramps are considered one way streets for the purpose of this law.)

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#66

Post by capnrefsmmat »

dorfsmay wrote: post #21
mstade wrote: post #8

> In the US, and other countries where you drive on the right side of the road, right turns are free, but for a left turn you need to wait for a green light. I don't know of any other country than the US where turning right on red is allowed, unless there's specific signage or additional traffic lights to allow it. Indeed, the turn-on-red rule in the US seems to work inverse to how I've seen it elsewhere – i.e. it's…

Turning right on red is one of those idea that once you've been exposed to it you wonder why isn't everybody adopting it... A similar idea is the train system in Munich where they built their platforms such that they can open doors on both sides, making one side of the train the exit, and the other side the entrance. Ever since I saw that, every single time I wait for people getting off a crowded train, I wonder "Why…

> Turning right on red is one of those idea that once you've been exposed to it you wonder why isn't everybody adopting it...

It was first introduced in the 70s in the US in response to high oil prices, and only after road safety tests apparently demonstrated its safety. But since then there's been a fair amount of research indicating it increases accidents and pedestrian fatalities, amounting to somewhere under 100 deaths per year. The original studies were not large enough to detect the effect.

https://www.statisticsdonewrong.com/power.html#the-wrong-tur...

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#67

Post by arnarbi »

mstade wrote: post #8

> In the US, and other countries where you drive on the right side of the road, right turns are free, but for a left turn you need to wait for a green light. I don't know of any other country than the US where turning right on red is allowed, unless there's specific signage or additional traffic lights to allow it. Indeed, the turn-on-red rule in the US seems to work inverse to how I've seen it elsewhere – i.e. it's…

It's not just about turning on red. Even where that's not allowed, when the light is green the right turning traffic is less impeded and more cars pass through in a cycle. Those turning left have to wait longer for gaps in the oncoming traffic, in general at least.

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#68

Post by camiller »

helipad wrote: post #19
mstade wrote: post #8

> In the US, and other countries where you drive on the right side of the road, right turns are free, but for a left turn you need to wait for a green light. I don't know of any other country than the US where turning right on red is allowed, unless there's specific signage or additional traffic lights to allow it. Indeed, the turn-on-red rule in the US seems to work inverse to how I've seen it elsewhere – i.e. it's…

My brother came to Michigan to visit from the UK. After a few days he said: "So, I can go on a red light for a right turn, but sometimes I have to wait at a green light for a left turn?" It was then I realised how peculiar the signals in the US can be.

Flip side, having driven in England 20+ years ago. In England, when stopped at a red they politely blink a yellow light when your stop light is about to turn green. In the US not only do we not do that, but many localities put extended shields around the lights, polarized lenses, etc. To prevent you from knowing when your light is about to turn by observing the lights for the perpendicular street.

In other words...

England provides more information to the driver expecting the driver to use that information to make good driving decisions.

The US hides information from drivers in an attempt to control their behavior because they don't trust the driver to make good driving decisions.

and now I'm once again angry about it.....

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#69

Post by crysin »

jack9 wrote: post #64
lorenzhs wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia [1], "as of 1992, right turn on red is governed federally by 42 U.S.C. § 6322(c)", which reads [2]: > Each proposed State energy conservation plan to be eligible > for Federal assistance under this part shall include [...] > a traffic law or regulation which, to the maximum extent > practicable consistent with safety, permits the operator of a > motor vehicle to turn such vehicle right at a red…

This is not "governed federally". Making a state eligible for Federal assistance is not the same as being a legal requirement. How you confuse these things is an example a simple comprehension failure or possibly someone who doesn't understand US law to any degree. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red shows a handy little map in the bottom right highlighting the differences between states.

If you're talking about the US map near the bottom of the page that is specific to left turns on red, not right turns.

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#70

Post by tiffani »

eggie5 wrote: post #53

i talked to my friend, a UPS driver, about this last year when this same story surfaced on HN. He said it's not really true and that they turn left all the time -- but he was aware of some training about it.

Right. It's a great story, but I've seen many a UPS truck take a left turn.
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